It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:54 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
Post subject: single-coil vs. humbucker noise on HSS American Deluxe
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:55 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:02 am
Posts: 6
I had an American Deluxe with N3 noiseless pickups made at the Fender factory "American Design" shop last year and ever since I got it I've felt like it produces a bit too much noise when played clean (I realize noise is an unavoidable part of playing with overdrive/crunch/distortion - not complaining about that).

Just a little reality check, I wonder whether other American Deluxe owners notice these same things with their guitars:

1) My guitar is noisiest when I enable the "passing lane" switch (not the S1) which bypasses all the tone/volume controls. hum/buzz and high frequency noise are both present here

2) My guitar is quietest when I switch to the single coil neck pickup (S1 off, passing lane off). Not much hum, mostly high frequency noise.. This seems confusing to me because I thought single coils were supposed to be noisier than humbuckers, but the opposite seems true on my guitar (?). I also thought position 2, which runs the neck and bridge in parallel, should be quieter because the reverse wound bridge helps noise cancel the neck (?).. but in fact position 1 (neck pickup only) is the quietest

Most people should stop reading here and (if you're inclined) respond to the above.. or if you've got time to kill the longer explanation is below:

Before I get into it - yes I've tried everything (other than replacing parts) to reduce noise. Power isolator and/or ground lift on everything, had the electronics in the guitar professionally shielded, eliminated ground loops in my setup, turned off all the lights/screens/laptops and sources of noise/RF/EMF, and when I record I turn my body to the best angle where the noise is minimal, etc.

A fair disclaimer, this is the first real electric guitar I've owned (had a cheap Ibanez in high school in the 90's) so I don't have a lot of experience on which to base my expectations for electric guitars but I know the sound I'm looking for and I just don't feel like I'm getting it - I want clean warm noise-free tones that I can record in multiple layers. I recorded a little thing last fall that shows the kind of style I'm going for, you can hear it here:

https://soundcloud.com/salvation/big-sky

When other instruments take up the space the noise isn't perceivable but you can nonetheless hear it in different places throughout the track, especially around 0:20 - 0:25 and at the very end when the guitar is heard without any other backing instruments and I let the strings ring out and decay naturally.

I've pretty much concluded that my expectations for very low noise with this guitar are probably just unrealistic, but before I go shopping for another guitar/pickup system I wanted to check with other American Deluxe owners about their experience w/noise, single-coil vs humbuckers, etc, in case there's something I've missed. If you actually read this far you're amazing, have an awesome day!


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: single-coil vs. humbucker noise on HSS American Deluxe
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:24 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:20 pm
Posts: 496
I don't have the S-1 system, but have both Vintage Noiseless and N3's. Both are completely quiet whether played clean or with distortion.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: single-coil vs. humbucker noise on HSS American Deluxe
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:51 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:50 pm
Posts: 7998
Location: ʎɹʇunoɔ ǝsoɹ pןıʍ
t2k wrote:
My guitar is quietest when I switch to the single coil neck pickup (S1 off, passing lane off). Not much hum, mostly high frequency noise.. This seems confusing to me because I thought single coils were supposed to be noisier than humbuckers, but the opposite seems true on my guitar
N3 pickups are not actually true single coils. They are what we call Silent Singles. They exhibit tones similar to single coils but are in fact noise cancelling, not unlike humbuckers. They just employ a slightly different method to cancel hum with the express intention of retaining as much single coil tone as possible. Some would argue they actually do a better job of cancelling noise and hum than traditional humbuckers. Others disagree of course. The point is ... you don't have single coils so your observation does not apply.

_________________
Image
Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: single-coil vs. humbucker noise on HSS American Deluxe
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:23 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:02 am
Posts: 6
Thanks BMW-KTM - I had a feeling the N3 single coils were not a traditional single coil but, as you described, a noise canceling single coil. So I guess that's reason enough to explain why the humbucker is louder... (?) The humbucker does not have the 'N3' tag on it so I assume it's a more standard issue humbucker

Comments like "Both are completely quiet whether played clean or with distortion." (from fenderfan) make me think that I should be getting less noise out of this setup but the guitar tech who shielded it didn't think the noise was unusual and when I took it to the Mesa Boogie store in Hollywood last weekend to try out some of their amps the sales guys there didn't think the noise was unusual either.. so again, I don't really know whether my expectations are too high or if I really should have a "completely quiet" guitar here... maybe it's got some issue (wiring? something else?) that, if fixed, would resolve the noise...

Fenderfan, what kind of amp are you playing through? I'm testing exclusively with tube amps (Egnater and Mesa Boogie so far).. wonder whether a solid state amp might be quieter but I really don't wanna go solid state..


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: single-coil vs. humbucker noise on HSS American Deluxe
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:47 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:20 pm
Posts: 496
t2k wrote:
Thanks BMW-KTM - I had a feeling the N3 single coils were not a traditional single coil but, as you described, a noise canceling single coil. So I guess that's reason enough to explain why the humbucker is louder... (?) The humbucker does not have the 'N3' tag on it so I assume it's a more standard issue humbucker

Comments like "Both are completely quiet whether played clean or with distortion." (from fenderfan) make me think that I should be getting less noise out of this setup but the guitar tech who shielded it didn't think the noise was unusual and when I took it to the Mesa Boogie store in Hollywood last weekend to try out some of their amps the sales guys there didn't think the noise was unusual either.. so again, I don't really know whether my expectations are too high or if I really should have a "completely quiet" guitar here... maybe it's got some issue (wiring? something else?) that, if fixed, would resolve the noise...

Fenderfan, what kind of amp are you playing through? I'm testing exclusively with tube amps (Egnater and Mesa Boogie so far).. wonder whether a solid state amp might be quieter but I really don't wanna go solid state..


I have N3's in a bass and Vintage Noiseless in a Tele. Have run both through tube and ss amps with no noise at all. If the Tele is shielded it is only what Fender supplied. It also has a boost circuit which would likely emphasize any hum coming out of the pickup. The bass has the N3's screwed right to the body and I know for a fact that it has no shielding at all.

I haven't tried N3's with S-1 switching but can't see how it would cause unwanted noise.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: single-coil vs. humbucker noise on HSS American Deluxe
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:42 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:02 am
Posts: 6
Well what do you guys think I should do? Talk to Fender and take the guitar back? The guy who did the shielding for me is Dave Neely in Hollywood and is a Fender Authorized repair guy anyway and he didn't think it was unusually noisy so.. I dunno. Maybe I should just walk into Guitar Center and buy a new American Deluxe off the shelf and see whether it has the same issues?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: single-coil vs. humbucker noise on HSS American Deluxe
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:16 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:20 pm
Posts: 496
t2k wrote:
Well what do you guys think I should do? Talk to Fender and take the guitar back? The guy who did the shielding for me is Dave Neely in Hollywood and is a Fender Authorized repair guy anyway and he didn't think it was unusually noisy so.. I dunno. Maybe I should just walk into Guitar Center and buy a new American Deluxe off the shelf and see whether it has the same issues?

Wouldn't hurt to try another guitar of the same model and see if sounds the same.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: single-coil vs. humbucker noise on HSS American Deluxe
Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:04 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:14 pm
Posts: 2561
I have an SSS American Deluxe Ash (N3s) which I chose over the HSS model specifically because I didn't feel the S1 enhancement had the same positive effect on the HSS.

I reasoned that since the S1 was initially designed for the SSS configuration, it may not have been optimized for the Bridge Humbucker when introduced.

That may be total speculation on my part, but it was why I chose the SSS over the HSS.

Still, it does sound as if something's not 100% with your guitar.

cheers!

_________________
Image

'11 FSR Am. Vtg. Ltd. Ed. CAR '57 Stratocaster (SN# LE02639)
'14 American Deluxe Ash Stratocaster
'12 Telebration Empress Telecaster
'99 Deluxe Nashville Telecaster
'12 FSR Telecaster HH
'10 Heritage H-535
'99 Martin DC-1E
'13 Lanikai Tenor Ukulele


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: single-coil vs. humbucker noise on HSS American Deluxe
Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:38 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:20 pm
Posts: 496
Lightnin MN wrote:
I have an SSS American Deluxe Ash (N3s) which I chose over the HSS model specifically because I didn't feel the S1 enhancement had the same positive effect on the HSS.

I reasoned that since the S1 was initially designed for the SSS configuration, it may not have been optimized for the Bridge Humbucker when introduced.

That may be total speculation on my part, but it was why I chose the SSS over the HSS.

Still, it does sound as if something's not 100% with your guitar.

cheers!

Haven't played my old Tele with Vintage Noiseless pickups since I got my new Tele but the topic inspired me to dust it off and plug it in. As I remembered, the pickups are completely silent whether using neck, bridge, or both.

The OP said that neck was quiet by itself so that N3 must be doing it's job. Likely the middle too. If he was using the S-1 to split the bridge humbucker and mix with the neck, that would account for the noise. Split the humbucker and it isn't a humbucker anymore. Adding another humbucker or a noiseless singlecoil isn't going to make it one.

Like you said, sometimes best to keep it simple and go SSS.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: single-coil vs. humbucker noise on HSS American Deluxe
Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:53 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:54 am
Posts: 2573
Location: Laurel, MD
I own a Clapton Strat with Lace Sensors, a Tele with a hum bucker in the neck, a '75 Strat with stock pups and a Deluxe Strat Plus, with N3 pups, and everything is noisy, it's just a matter of how noisy. Even my best friend's guitars (Mr. Anti-Noise himself) are noisy at my house.

I've come to the conclussion that it's my house. You may be dealing with the same issue. Learn about ground loops. When I play out at other places, like church everything gets pretty quite, even my '75 Strat. To ensure total silence, I use a Rocktron "Hush" pedal. It reduced the noise at my house geatly. The only things is, you can't turn the level knob too high, otherwise it starts effecting your sustain and tone. Just keeping the level knob on low while activated helped a bit.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: single-coil vs. humbucker noise on HSS American Deluxe
Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:58 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:18 pm
Posts: 16
Not to be over simplistic, but is it possible it is not the guitar at all, but the cable you are using...could save a lot of heartache


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: single-coil vs. humbucker noise on HSS American Deluxe
Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:15 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:01 pm
Posts: 34
My friend has a 2013 Deluxe HSS with S1 and passing lane and all settings are dead quiet.

_________________
1978 Fender Hardtail Strat
1983 Kramer Pacer Imperial
1996 Eric Clapton Strat Blackie
2014 Gibson Les Paul Custom Black Beauty


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: single-coil vs. humbucker noise on HSS American Deluxe
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 6:40 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:27 pm
Posts: 3448
Location: Connecticut
As others have suggested I would look outside the guitar.

(1) Your cord. High quality shielded ?

(2) How is your amp plugged in ? Is it grounded and if not you may want to try plugging your amp power cord into a surge protector. An APC model will not only properly ground but also shield against external interference being passed on from your home electrical conduits.

_________________
"C'est parti mon Kiki "


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: