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Post subject: Truss rod stuck?
Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:47 pm
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I change the gauge of my string from 9s to 10s. Doing a full setup while at it. With new strings, now the neck has too much relief. Capo at 1st fret while pressing the last fret (22nd fret). Distance from top of 8th fret to the bottom of high e string is around 0.4mm (around 0.017 inch). I try to set the relief back to factory setting (0.010 inch/0.25mm). Turn the truss rod clockwise, but it meets the resistance immediately. As a note, I don't put much force on it as I don't want to damage the neck. I try to loose the truss rod by 1/4 turn and it works. Then I tighten it again to its original position (no problem). But as I try to tighten it further, the truss rod is stubbornly stuck. I conclude that the truss rod is already at its maximum tightness. Is this normal? Should I throw $100 to get the neck fixed by a luthier?


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Post subject: Re: Truss rod stuck?
Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:35 pm
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Did you detune the strings to relieve tension first?

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Post subject: Re: Truss rod stuck?
Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:40 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Did you detune the strings to relieve tension first?

No. Should I? Fender manual said nothing about loosening them. Would that make the measurement inaccurate?


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Post subject: Re: Truss rod stuck?
Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:48 pm
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Just detune the strings quite a bit before adjusting the truss rod. If the truss rod won't budge with slack on the strings, then you definitely have a problem. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Truss rod stuck?
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:26 am
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IMO don't need to loosen or detune strings . Truss rod adjustment need some experience ;

Just tightened truss rod nut ,not more than 1/8 turn , pressure is normal . *
Wait few hours at least , keep strings in tune , and wait .
Few hours later another 1/8 turn if needed and wait .

I see often some neck keep their bow after 12 hours , before that , they may move .

Truss rod adjustment may takes time if you don't have experience . Go slowly and take your time .
Be sure to use quality allen wrench wich fit tight in truss rod nut . If not you can damage nut .

* Abnormal pressure ? Truss rod damaged , only experience could tell


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Post subject: Re: Truss rod stuck?
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:30 am
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It seems to me to be common sense that if your are trying to reduce neck relief, string tension would counter any adjustment made to the truss rod. Loosen the string tension, then adjust the truss rod. Wait, retest and adjust again if necessary.
If you are not loosening string tension, every turn on the truss rod nut is being forced against that tension and could result in a stripped truss rod nut.........


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Post subject: Re: Truss rod stuck?
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:40 am
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Which Strat are we talking about? I'm just thinkin, maybe you have The Bi-Flex™ truss rod, and that "immediate resistance" you feel is the spot where the rod starts to grab..?

Truss rods do get broken, but my first guess is that you just aren't yet used to adjusting it. If you feel uncertain, just loosen the strings completely, then test the truss rod function.

BTW, I do slacken the strings a few turns, when I tighten a truss rod; IMHO there's no need to fight the extra 40ish kg (80ish lb) string pull. (I've never broken the rod itself, but I did round some truss rod nuts in my earlier days...)

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Should I throw $100 to get the neck fixed by a luthier?

For a Ben Franklin, you usually get the full setup done.
I'd argue that's money well spent if the guitar then plays to it's full potential. :wink:


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Post subject: Re: Truss rod stuck?
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:52 am
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I don't slacken the strings when I do truss rod adjustments, but I do make sure that I use the correct size hex wrench to do the job in hand.
The danger of stripping out metal is 99.9% removed by using the correct size wrench.


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Post subject: Re: Truss rod stuck?
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:02 am
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Well. A little update. I loosened the strings. Using a little bit of force, manage to turn it by 1/6th turn. There are some creaking (cracking? Popping?) sounds :shock: Checked for visible damages. No sign of crack exists on the fretboard and along the back of neck. 1 min prayer for God's mercy. Retune the strings. Brought kids to school. Worked. Checked the guitar after 18 hours. Measure the gap. Around 0.3mm (0.012 inch) now. Further checking for any crack from earlier dreaded sound. So far so good. Playing the guitar feels more comfortable. Still want to try to get 0.010 inch gap, but not sure about it after hearing that sound. :|

Btw, I use the hex wrench that comes with the guitar.


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Post subject: Re: Truss rod stuck?
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:10 am
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cracking / poping sound is normal .

If you go slowly with 1/8 , 1/16 turn with a good quality allen wrench and wait until new adjustment , nothing bad could happen .

You should take mesurement ( 0.010 or more) with a capo at first fret .
To me , 0.010 is to straight , strings buzz . I use 0.012 . But if you play gently , softly 0.010 may work .


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Post subject: Re: Truss rod stuck?
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:38 am
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Relief is very much dependant on playing style, and of course has a close relation to string gauge and action.
Heavy pick attack needs more relief, but hey: very few players need as much as, and nobody needs more than SRV did. He got along with .012"/0,30mm...
I've seen quite a few (usually lower price class, thinnish neck) guitars, where the neck really needs proper support from the truss rod (= very little relief); otherwise it flexes and causes problems with tuning.
And I'll hop on the shoulders of a giant here: Dan Erlewine recommends as little relief as possible...

That creaking sound may very well be from the rod itself; take the nut off and lube the threads on the truss rod end. Often that helps - and: if the rod works fine, a little whining is tolerable.
Sometimes there's a metal washer squeaking - and then rubbing candle to it quiets the beast.
Sometimes the rod is stuck so much that you have to loosen it completely, then either bend the neck with your hands, or tap the rod gently - or even (in extreme cases) heat the rod a bit. But, these tricks might be a bit much for beginners.

On this particular guitar, the truss rod probably just shows symptoms of not being used for a while.
I'd lube the rod, and play with it a bit (loosen/tighten), no strings attached. Keep note of how many turns you need to get the nut off, so you can estimate how much is needed to get back to the start point.
Then pretension the rod, restring, do the rest of the setup - should be fine.

Quote:
Capo at 1st fret while pressing the last fret (22nd fret). Distance from top of 8th fret to the bottom of high e string

Yep, this is "the right way" - although I usually check both E strings (old habits etc.) :wink:


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Post subject: Re: Truss rod stuck?
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:55 am
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jmattis wrote:
Relief is very much dependant on playing style, and of course has a close relation to string gauge and action.
Heavy pick attack needs more relief, but hey: very few players need as much as, and nobody needs more than SRV did. He got along with .012"/0,30mm...


Most of the time you should read relief at fret which is farthest from the strings

Roberts Cray Stratocaster ; 0.017 at 11 frets
Chris Duarte " ; 0.017 at 9 th frets
Brian Setzer Gretsch ; 0.15 at 9 th fret

To name fews

From the book "How to make your electric guitar play great " by Dan Erlewine


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Post subject: Re: Truss rod stuck?
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:42 am
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Aha, we seem to have different readings, caused by different ways to measure...
Just so we know what we're talking about here, let's stick to the way the OP uses = the way according to the Fender's Strat Setup Guide.

Quote:
Tone Quest Report 2003, Question: And are there specific tips that apply to all guitars?
Dan Erlewine, Answer: I think the key to good tone is to have a neck that is straight under string tension (because it is under truss-rod tension). The stiffness that results lets the neck drive the body and produce good tone. If the player must have some relief, back off the rod, but no more than absolutely necessary.
Some relief is OK (I don’t like it, or at least hardly any) as long as the truss rod is not loose and the neck doesn’t have too much relief. Once a neck shows, say, .012" relief or more, it’s like a bow and arrow — the neck is the bow, the strings are the bow string — push or pull the string, and the neck bends and moves, losing tone, in my opinion.
I prove this to myself daily when I adjust my customers’ guitar truss rods. As soon as I get the neck straight, the tone and woody resonance comes out. I always remove the truss rod nut first, lube it with Vaseline, machinist’s wax, white grease or a Teflon lubricant.


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Post subject: Re: Truss rod stuck?
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:03 am
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jmattis wrote:
Aha, we seem to have different readings, caused by different ways to measure...
]


I just answer of what you write ;

" ....and nobody needs more than SRV did ..( 0.012 ) . "


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Post subject: Re: Truss rod stuck?
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:26 am
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OK, if that's the detail you wanna start picking on.

I see a lot more guitars suffering from too much relief than too little, so I try to give setup advice that helps.


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