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Post subject: Re: Tuning issues on B strings.. HELP!!
Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:46 pm
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I apologize for reading the subject post to quickly. I realize my intial post is not relavant to the subject post.


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Post subject: Re: Tuning issues on B strings.. HELP!!
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:07 am
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Actually I thought your post was the only one that made any sense. I can think of no condition under which a single string can be a whole step out that could be fixed by a setup. A slipping string, however, is quite plausible although not limited to only the tuning peg end. The ball end can also slip, strange as that may sound.

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Post subject: Re: Tuning issues on B strings.. HELP!!
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:59 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
A slipping string, however, is quite plausible although not limited to only the tuning peg end. The ball end can also slip, strange as that may sound.


Actually...doesn't sound strange at all. I had this happen with one of my Strats (my '96 Standard if I'm remembering correctly). It still had the factory trem block and when I used ball end strings, the ball end wouldn't seat right...at least not right away. It only happened on 1 string...I think it was the G string on that guitar. Then after it would finally settle in, it was a pecker to get back out again..I usually had to use a pick to jiggle it loose. I had switched to Bullets for a while with that guitar and those never gave me a problem...it was just the ball end strings. After swapping out the trem block, the problem never happened again.

That said, I've had tuners go bad too. My early 80's Kramer came with a bad Grover on it...brand new. Had to replace one on my '07 Standard once as well...it just wouldn't stay tight.

Sh_t happens...


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Post subject: Re: Tuning issues on B strings.. HELP!!
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:30 am
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Actually I was referring to something else. I've brought it up before in other discussions about strings but got a lot of flack for it because I've only ever encountered the issue with one specific brand of strings. That brand has a very loyal following, likely due to a pretty reasonable price, and many folks felt a bit miffed. How dare I call thier strings into question.

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Post subject: Re: Tuning issues on B strings.. HELP!!
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:00 pm
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I've had to chase down tuning issues myself, so I will give you a couple of things to try.

#1 If you are not using the Tremolo, put 3 or 4 springs on the claw and screw in the claw adjuster screws all the way to the wood.

#2 At the headstock end, wind on the string so that it only has 1 and 1/2 full turns or 2 full turns around the peg, but the end is captured under the wraps. This is a little hard to explain, but Scott Grove has a video of the procedure on You Tube. Having too many wraps on the peg does not help with slipping.

You also have to put two kinks in the string where it goes thru the peg. It has to be bent at 90 degree angles while the tuner is being tightened. It will resemble a backwards "Z" looking down from the top. Another way to visualize this operation is to bend the loose end of the string clockwise and try to put the kink so that the string has about 1 finger's length of slack in it at the 12th fret.

As you wind the peg itself counter clockwise, hold tension on the string and put another kink on the other side of the peg as it winds up. With the first full wrap, put the loose end of the string under it and pull up and away from the guitar. This will "lock" the string on the peg better than just the backward "Z".

With a new set of strings you will also have to seat the bend at the saddles and stretch the string itself for a couple of days until it finally stops stretching.

#3 At the bridge, it might help to make sure the saddles are seated well on the bridge plate. You can't have the height adjuster screws digging into the top of the bridge plate or any weirdness with the springs on the intonation screws. _ here again, you can swap the B string saddle with one of the others just to rule out that possibility.

#4 If all the above does not solve your problem, look at the strings themselves.. I have had strings partially unwrap themselves from around the bobbin at the bridge end.

Make sure the tone block is screwed down well to the bridge plate.

About the only other possibility is that there is some foreign material in the bottom of the hole where the B string bobbin seats in the hole.. ?? that would be very unlikely, but it is possible. It would make the B string "spongy" with the tuning like when you tried to make the Trem "float" and do divebombs up and down.

#5 Just for troubleshooting purposes you could take the B string tuner and swap it with one of the other tuners that are not slipping, just to find out if the tuner is bad.

#6 You may have your pickups too close to the strings.. If your pickup has strong magnets in it even that will pull the string out of tune. You could drop the pickups down a bit if nothing else works.


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Post subject: Re: Tuning issues on B strings.. HELP!!
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:25 pm
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mojjett wrote:
jmattis, your point is well taken. Since the OP doesn't even have enough interest simply to reply to the thread let alone deal w/a setup, it's all moot. He's had the guitar since 2011, never stayed in tune, & now 4 years on asking for help, then disappears?? :roll:


whooops! sorry everyone for the late reply! ! I was extremely busy with some stuff, new kid.. work.. church... etc.. :( :? Apologies. but THANK YOU SOOO much for all the advice. This is one of my weaknesses in guitar, properly setting it up... I think I'm a bit good in playing but a very noob in electronics, setup. etc... :(

Anyhow... Issue still occurs with high E and B... starting to just live with it. I guess I exaggerated with going whole step down, mostly it is half step which is really crucial since I play leads every Sunday service. I hear a 'ping' when I use my tremolo bar... other strings seems to be fine.

I will have this professionay setup next week with a known guitar tech here who setup my other guitars with extremely great results. I'm honestly not using much my American Standard since I lost the desire to play a very unstable tuning... heck, even my newly acquired $90 2nd Squire has more stable tuning/// :twisted:

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Post subject: Re: Tuning issues on B strings.. HELP!!
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:21 pm
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As mentioned could well be sticking at the nut.. :D


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Post subject: Re: Tuning issues on B strings.. HELP!!
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:31 pm
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. One thing would be that the guitar itself may not be set up for the larger diameter strings that you have on it now. That would mean that the string slots in the nut may not be wide enough to allow the string to slide over the nut and at the same time equalize the tension on both sides of the nut. Any sticking there will cause a pitch shift after you start bending the B string for sure. Always tune UP to pitch and then take the extra tension out of the string above the nut by gently giving the short sections there a little stretch. You should be able to tell if the string is sticking in the nut because the tone will change slightly at that time with that action.

Sometimes a roller type string tree will help or even a roller nut as an option.

Another thing that may be a problem is that the tremolo plate may be moving around a bit and not returning to the exact same position every time the whammy bar or even a re-tuning may have caused. If you have the 6 screw type of trem plate you might try screwing the plate down to the body, add a full set of springs to the tone block, make a spacer block to wedge the tone block against the inside of the body cavity, and immobilize the trem block completely. I have never seen a Strat that will stay in tune if this is not done. Sorry Leo, (RIP) but going back exactly in pitch after the wammy bar is moved is just a fantasy.

This does not have to be a permanent change, but just a suggestion that may help you troubleshoot your pitch changing. I took the whammy bar off mine and locked down the trem with all the above. Now the only pitch change is with a change in the room temperature or if you tune the guitar laying flat and then play it in the vertical plane.

Also you might want to swap the tuner on the B string with another one from another string that is not slipping. That should be just two screws that hold the tuner to the headstock.

Also, as aggravating as it may be, sometimes the way the string is wrapped around the tuning peg will make a difference. They say that the string should have no more than 1 and 1/2 turns around the peg when tight. This seems counter intuitive, but having 4 or 5 turns on the peg just gives the string more places to stretch later on.

This means that the 1st fullf wrap will have to trap the underlying short end of the string against the peg. This usually requires that the string be sharply bent backwards in a Z shape at both the entrance to the hole and the exit from the hole in the peg. This means you need about a 1/4 inch of slack before you start winding the peg and the string.

Anyway, with the swapped out tuners and the new string(s) and the locked down trem, you might still want to stretch the string a few times and get all the slack out of it before you start trying to tune the guitar.

Make sure that the string balls or cylinders of each string are sitting in the trem block cleanly and there are no metal burrs at the bottom of the holes in the trem block.

Make sure the neck is snugged down to the body with all the screws tight (don't over do this) and that the neck is not at a funny angle with both E stings sharing an equal amount of both edges of the neck.

I have seen on some cheaper guitars where the neck itself will be twisted in relation to the body. this can be corrected with a shim, but that is beyond the scope of this message.

As long as you are going to replace the strings anyway, you might want to look at some quality strings like the Elixir polyweb, and go back to 9's if possible. 10's will put more strain on the neck and your fingers anyway to get the same tuning pitch.

If you use a slightly heavier pick you probably won't notice any loss of tone going back to 9's and you won't have to have the nut modified, and the guitar will be much easier to do your bends etc.

Make sure your bridge saddles are not leaning left or right and this keeps the string in the center of the saddle which should theoretically keep the tension more constant.

I don't think it's an intonation problem, but you never know. You need a good guitar tuner and compare the results from the 12th fret and the open string.

The tuner will tell you if you need to move the saddle.

Good luck and I hope I did not offend your sensibilities. These things can be frustrating I know.

Also check that your pickups are not too close to the strings! A pickup that is too close will not ever let you get good intonation. It's a trade off I know. About a 1/4 inch is about as close as you might want to try for troubleshooting purposes.

Tillerman6


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Post subject: Re: Tuning issues on B strings.. HELP!!
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:02 am
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valvestate wrote:
I hear a 'ping' when I use my tremolo bar... other strings seems to be fine


Your guitar's nut is catching the affected strings.
A competent tech should be able to cure the problem.

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Post subject: Re: Tuning issues on B strings.. HELP!!
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:14 am
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valvestate wrote:
I will have this professionay setup next week with a known guitar tech here who setup my other guitars with extremely great results.


A very wise decision, I support that a 100 %. :wink:


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Post subject: Re: Tuning issues on B strings.. HELP!!
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:53 am
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Thanks everyone for all your suggestions and responses! Can't believe how very helpful all the people here!!! You guys rock! :twisted:

I will update this thread how it goes after my setup. :D :)

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