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Post subject: Lace sensors sound wrong
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:33 am
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I just bought a Deluxe America Standard Strat (the one with the 3 gold lace sensors as stock) (1989 E8 Serial). As far as I can tell the pickups and wiring are all stock.

The guitar does not sound good. It has a treble bias and the sound seems very unrefined. I have a Strat plus of the same year that sounds correct and has a more mellow complicated sound.
It’s the same on all pickups and at different pickup heights. It sounds too different to my other guitar that I feel something is wrong (rather than just tonal variations between guitars). Is there a capacitor that could have gone – or any other explanation for this? And how do I fix it?

If more pictures might help, just click on the one below and there are loads on photobucket.

Thanks for any help...

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Post subject: Re: Lace sensors sound wrong
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:13 am
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What's the setting on the lower tone control?
It looks like a TBX control, so there should be a notch on the 5 position, and this is the "normal" setting.


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Post subject: Re: Lace sensors sound wrong
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:36 am
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You're right, it is a TBX, but the sound is still wrong no matter what the setting is...


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Post subject: Re: Lace sensors sound wrong
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:16 am
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I've owned red gold and blue sensors in the past. I liked none of them and I wouldn't get them again. IMO the VNs were a dramatic improvement. N3s and ScNs both have their pros and cons. I also tried two kinds of Kinmans without satisfaction. Thanks to Arjay and Martian I learned about Dimarzio Areas and feel they're the best silent singles I've tried yet.

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Post subject: Re: Lace sensors sound wrong
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:26 am
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Try here or pm him.
http://xhefriguitars.com/index.html
You may also try to post in the strat plus thread, even though you new axe isn't a plus.
Personally, being that you have another plus that sounds good. I would compare the wiring diagrams to ensure they are the same. If you don't have the tools or the knowledge to test the individual components, find a good tech that can test/fix the issue.


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Post subject: Re: Lace sensors sound wrong
Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:40 am
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Looking at the pic blown up to almost pixel size, my first choice would be to check all wiring - the solderings don't look their best, and I wonder what's in the wire joint under that tape system.
A total rewiring with new pots, caps, wires etc. is a possibility - if you can DIY, it's really cheap.

Some don't like Lace Sensors, and they do have a different tone from "your everyday Strat single coils", but they should not sound 'treble biased' - I read that as 'tinny, no bottom'.

Oh, in another forum someone got the advice to check the neck joint so the neck end sits properly against the body, and the story continues this helped. Never happened to me, but this sure would be easy to try :wink:


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Post subject: Re: Lace sensors sound wrong
Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:58 am
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jmattis wrote:
Some don't like Lace Sensors, and they do have a different tone from "your everyday Strat single coils", but they should not sound 'treble biased' - I read that as 'tinny, no bottom'.
Quite right. No Sensor I ever tried was all top and no bottom. My issue with Sensors was a lack of single coil dynamics. That and the unending honk. Always, the honk.

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Post subject: Re: Lace sensors sound wrong
Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:20 am
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If the guitar has 3 Gold Lace Sensors, wouldn't be a Strat Plus, and not Deluxe American Std? Do you mean Strat Plus Dlx?

As to the pickups, I don't know. I'd take them to a luthier and have him or her check them out. It could be a pot or a cap. Capacitors make a big difference in tone. Changing them can alter how everything sounds.

As to difference between Lace Sensors and vintage pickups, I agree. The Gold Lace Sensors in my Clapton Strat sound really good, but they just don't have the dynamics my '75 Strat's pups have.

Last night I went to jam at a bar, and I knew in my heart, hum or no hum, I wanted the '75 Strat, and I was right. The guitar sounded amazing.


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Post subject: Re: Lace sensors sound wrong
Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:24 pm
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Paris is correct. This would be simple a Standard Strat Plus, looks like in Vintage White or a very aged Arctic White. If this were just one pickup, I would know the problem immediately. Lace Sensor are famous for shorting out and because of their design they would still work, but at only 1/2 the output. Thus very thin and trebley. For a whole set to sound like that has to be a solder joint on the leads to the jack, or the jack itself. Could be a dry solder joint, one that looks ok but has only partial contact. I have seen the jack plug also get gummed up and dirty so the cable makes poor contact. Or even a dirty volume pot. So you need to spray the pots and switch with a good contact cleaner, take out the jack and clean the contacts, then touch a soldering iron to all contacts on the jack, and the volume pot. see if that fixes it.

People either love or hate Lace Sensors. I tend to love them, but I also use other pickups such as Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio. Great pickups. I lean more toward the Blue/Silver/Red Laces as I like the bit fatter tone for Gilmore/Santata/Funk/Blue styles.... Not in that order! LOL!

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Post subject: Re: Lace sensors sound wrong
Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:12 pm
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I don't think its a plus model of any kind. The OP didn't claim that it was. It doesn't have locking tuners or either type of roller nut and the headstock has two modern string trees. The serial number,body route and the lace sensor filled pickguard and paint patina are the only indicators of it being a plus model or jus an older model body, imo.
The solder joints on the volume pot are poorly done, there is plenty of exposed wire at the contact point w/ the pot. If its all wired in the correct way then clean and retry, if that doesn't work re-solder all the connections. If that don't do the trick have the pups tested for output.


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Post subject: Re: Lace sensors sound wrong
Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:26 pm
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sfceric64 wrote:
I don't think its a plus model of any kind. The OP didn't claim that it was. It doesn't have locking tuners or either type of roller nut and the headstock has two modern string trees. The serial number,body route and the lace sensor filled pickguard and paint patina are the only indicators of it being a plus model or jus an older model body, imo.
The solder joints on the volume pot are poorly done, there is plenty of exposed wire at the contact point w/ the pot. If its all wired in the correct way then clean and retry, if that doesn't work re-solder all the connections. If that don't do the trick have the pups tested for output.

I went back and reread your first post. You are right, if it came with Lace Sensors and has a E9 serial number and no Wilkinson nut or locking tuners, it is one of the short lived Deluxe American Standard Strats. Sorry I over looked that.

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Post subject: Re: Lace sensors sound wrong
Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:54 pm
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We're all human, Jeff.

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Post subject: Re: Lace sensors sound wrong
Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:21 pm
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Thanks for everyones input. I'll check the soldier joints as I cleaned all the pots the other day.
Can I just measure the resistance of the pick-ups to see if they are ok? Without removing them?
I'm also guessing it had a respray in the factory before being sold... The rout for the neck has paint over the micro tilt adjustment but all the stamps are on top of the paintwork.
Someone put a sticker on the body and the paint has not aged here. Any suggestions on how to make it look a little less obvious? I'm guessing just give it time and it will even out.
Thanks again...


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Post subject: Re: Lace sensors sound wrong
Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:00 pm
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If the sound is stable without crackling, I wouldn't think it was bad soldering or noisy controls
Something you might look at is string composition. If you are using the strings it came with, They could be the wrong string for those pickups.
The strings are alloys. The more iron there is, the stronger and brighter it will sound.
Stainless steel makes the brightest tone
Chrome strings have a warm mellow tone and nickel strings are in between.
Large guage strings also have more bite because of the higher amount of iron in the magnetic field
Experiment with different strings and see if it makes a positive difference


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Post subject: Re: Lace sensors sound wrong
Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:24 pm
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Great suggestion with the strings. I normally use earnie balls... Not sure what these are... They are the same gauge as what I normally use though...
Will change them and see.


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