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Post subject: Re: Guitar Myths.
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:31 pm
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I can definitely appreciate the comments of those here, the ideas of others are helpful as far as seeing many possibilities within reach.
Sure, with the appropriate amount of mutual respect and an attitude that allows for innovation, the many people here stand to gain much from a few resourceful posters.
The intention is really to show that we just can't be gullible when it comes to perceived needs, mods, and products that can't guarantee anything other than costs to the consumer.

Sure, sarcasm will always be the way of the jealous, belittlement that of those that don't get it, and disbelief on the part of the over-zealous that can't but spend all their money on things that are otherwise within the reach of the product-savvy consumer.


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Myths.
Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:00 am
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rdclmn7 wrote:
I can definitely appreciate the comments of those here, the ideas of others are helpful as far as seeing many possibilities within reach.

(1) .... Sure, with the appropriate amount of mutual respect and an attitude that allows for innovation, the many people here stand to gain much from a few resourceful posters.

(2) .... The intention is really to show that we just can't be gullible when it comes to perceived needs, mods, and products that can't guarantee anything other than costs to the consumer.

(3).... Sure, sarcasm will always be the way of the jealous, belittlement that of those that don't get it, and disbelief on the part of the over-zealous that can't but spend all their money on things that are otherwise within the reach of the product-savvy consumer.



(1) The purpose within a Forum, in its truest definition.

(2) ..... Not every product is junk, nor does this infer that all of it is about fleecing of a consumer. Since we are on Fender, we should limit the discussion to the brand.
A Squier Classic guitar is not a Custom Shop NOS 56 Stratocaster, but neither does it pretend to be. Two very separate price points aimed at different market shares. The 1st is a very affordable facsimile of an older model line. The latter is a painstakingly built replica of a 50+ year old design. Having owned both I can attest that each have their niche. The CS NOS 56 is expensive, but is worth the price. In reality it would be much more expensive if all the labor handwork was taken into account. ( But this is entirely subjective on my part. )
At the bottom end there are the Squier series. A very affordable entry level line of guitars. Entry level being the key word. These are not aimed at the professional musician but rather the one's ( Noobs ) who have aspirations of becoming pro musicians but cannot yet afford the higher line instruments.

(3) ...... Not sure how to respond to this other than if you are running for political office, pontification seems to be a forte. :?
No sarcasm just a reply to what at this point seems to resemble a personally based rant.
As equally voiced by others, there is much space for an intelligent discussion, debate, argument as to the validity of Fenders products in the marketplace. This does however preclude that subject matter is a valid point of contention based on factual pros and cons of Fender products. Where the consumer falls is broad based due to infinite variables.
This should set the ground rules which in effect just reflects what the mods have already stated on the participation of Forum members.....
In other words ..... Stop with the Rantings, it reminds us of Topscore :roll:

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Post subject: Re: Guitar Myths.
Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:23 am
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rdclmn7 wrote:
I can definitely appreciate the comments of those here, the ideas of others are helpful as far as seeing many possibilities within reach.
Sure, with the appropriate amount of mutual respect and an attitude that allows for innovation, the many people here stand to gain much from a few resourceful posters.
The intention is really to show that we just can't be gullible when it comes to perceived needs, mods, and products that can't guarantee anything other than costs to the consumer.

Sure, sarcasm will always be the way of the jealous, belittlement that of those that don't get it, and disbelief on the part of the over-zealous that can't but spend all their money on things that are otherwise within the reach of the product-savvy consumer.


Just to add another $.02 to all of this, I think that beyond my previous comments regarding preconceptions (or perhaps in addition to them), one of the things that a great many people over-look is simply that when it comes to "tone", so much of it simply comes down to the person playing. At the end of the day, it isn't really about the guitar or amp or pedal or gadgets or doodads, etc., it's about the individuals hands, heart, experience and so on. I remember an interview with Chet Adkins where he was talking about one of his students. The student had said (something along the lines of) "That's a really great sounding guitar". Adkin's tossed the guitar on the ground in front of the student, looked at the person and said "Yea? How does it sound now?".

I have to truly feel that a great deal of this comes down to what my wife describes as "doing the Egyptian back stroke"...in other words, people who like to "swim in D'Nile" (LOL!). As I've said, I see this all the time with people when it comes to photography...people think that taking pictures is somehow about the camera and NOT the person taking the pictures. I think the same thing is true of a lot of guitar players too...people think or realize their sound sucks, so it must be that "cheap" guitar they're using..."if I get an expensive guitar, maybe I'll sound better". When that doesn't work...well..."maybe it's because my amp is solid state and not tube...", so off they run to buy a new amp. Then when that doesn't work...hey...maybe it's the distortion pedal.... Of course it doesn't work like that, but then people are stuck with the need to save face and rationalize their decision. For better or worse, we humans are amazingly good at fooling ourselves into believing whatever we want to believe.

I will admit that personally there have been a few times over the years where I've "chased the dragon" when it comes to my tone...most recently with distortion pedals. For -many- years I used a cheap old Ross distortion pedal that I really always loved. A few years back I had loaned it to a band mate and yea...the pedal came back broken. After this I tried quite a few different pedals...a few Boss distortions, a couple of DOD and Digitechs, etc...after 6 or 7 different pedals, I finally broke down and took that old Ross into the shop and had it rebuilt...and I've pretty much sold those other pedals. In this case I might defend or rationalize my choice by saying that I simply knew the sound I wanted...and I'm finally there again. It must be added however that yes...I did gig with a couple of those other pedals and they did the job. It was more about my own personal choice than anything...I knew the particular sound that I liked.

That said, I do...as a general rule...try to avoid the gimmick trap. In some ways it's kind of ironic and in some ways, I suspect it even makes me a bit of hypocrite. On the one hand, I do try to be open minded when it comes to gear...at least a little. This Roland GR-30 guitar synth I picked up a few years back has been a really incredible tool that has literally opened up a whole new world of sound for me. I mean seriously...doing sax leads on a guitar? Priceless! And yes, I'll admit it...I'm a HUGE fan of Snark tuners! Just the coolest thing since the advent of the "pitch pipe", LOL!!! I just forked out an extra $11 so I could have a second Snark...one just wasn't enough! I just can't say enough good things about my Snarks! On the other hand, soooooooooo many gimmicks seem to come and go - like that "revolutionary" guitar neck mentioned in another thread...as I said in that thread, it really just seems like the latest, greatest scheme to suck money out of our pockets. I just caught a snippet in a magazine article about some "staggered ratio guitar tuners" that allegedly allow for "more intuitive tuning of your instrument" - yikes I say. I never thought tuning a guitar was THAT hard...even before my Snarks. I did break down and try a set of those Elixer strings that some folks seem to rave about...I hated the damn things (SERIOUS waste of $30!)...nasty feel and horrible sound. Yet some folks just swear by them.

While I will agree with magnatone in that "not every such product is junk", I equally have to disagree that very often it does seem to be about "fleecing the customer". I could easily point out Fender related examples, particularly based on numerous debates that have occurred on these forums (certainly some rather heated debates), however I will refrain other than to say that companies and corporations, including Fender are businesses FIRST and very often they do want people to reach into those pockets to spend some extra bread...you simply can't ignore the profit driven mentality there.

With all of this said however, again it really just comes down to the person playing. As I've said so often, I've seen guys with the most expensive gear that money can buy...who honestly can't play a lick if their lives depended on it. I've also seen guys with the rattiest gear you can imagine, who can literally bring tears to your eyes because they really are THAT good. At the end of the day, it's not about the guitar (or the amp or the pedals)...it really doesn't matter how expensive (or inexpensive) it is and it don't matter where it was build...it's ALWAYS about the person playing it.

If a person really wants to improve their "tone", then the singular best way to do it is simply this; improve your playing.


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Post subject: Re: Guitar Myths.
Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:47 am
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Absolutely, Tone is about developing into a musician first, then all else should fall into place. I totally agree on the Snarks, I also have two and they are by far the easiest tuner to have. compact, accurate.

All product derived companies develop products that in hindsight are just :shock: :?: :cry: :roll:
I see it in my profession all the time. Tools that are so over-developed that they are useless do to the annoying constant recalibrations.

Amp wise I'm pretty much set on what I have used and settled on for years.
An early 60's Magnatone Classic, an ( original ) 67 Vox Wah pedal, a gift from a musician friend. Fender Pro Junior III. Black and silver faced. I have seen them in colors that only Prince would like .. Eeww !! But it's a great little amp that is capable of being the sole practice amp yet has enough push for a jam session and isn't going to require weekly chiropractic visits. lol
Same wattage as my Magnatone but the difference in presence is immense. On the other hand, nothing sounds like a Magnatone amp. Originally designed as an accordion amp... Hmmm :lol:
A couple of other amps I love are the Blues Junior and Hot Rod Deluxe. They just require a small change internally and off you go. Sorry, but I disagree with the lack of reliability as I believe this has more to do with owner care than crappy manufacturing.
( The car I drive is a perfect example of that paradox. Large contingency of naysayers. Yet I would not drive anything but a VAG Volkswagen Audi Grup). And No they are also not that expensive..

Guitar wise, it's back to simple. A 98 black and white MIM Stratocaster, maple fretboard, a 2002 Crimson Red Deluxe modded with SCN pups a brass trem block and Sperzel tuners. Gone are the 56 NOS, mid 90's Larrivee acoustics, Violin and Viola, and a couple other fun but not very practical instruments. Currently 5 builds, one nearing completion ( Tele ) the others needing necks. May buy from FMIC or I may build my own ( especially for the figured maple Strat. )

In all Fender has some great products, then again some purchasing intelligence has to be engaged. A signature Eric Johnson or Mark Knopfler is not going to make anyone play or sound like either player. However both of those Strats are very simply laid out models. It's in the fingers and mind of the player to bring out that sound... ( Does require much woodshedding )

So a discussion on what is and may not be frivolous is a good thread topic, but let's all stay on track as Lomitus suggests.

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Post subject: Re: Guitar Myths.
Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:13 am
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For years I made a profession out of operating TV cameras and audio consoles, for a network. All of this equipment came with options and add ons. Prices ranged from around $50 to hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Everyone had to learn how to use their equipment to the fullest, and while some became more technically proficient than others, there were those who simply shone with talent. Sometimes the best gear would defeat the wannabes. At times a higher quality tool ( like lenses) were required;but, perhaps a simpler, less than optimum tool could be used due to effect, ingenuity, or availability.

The interesting relationship to the topic of guitar myths is that with the audio video usage I mentioned . . . we all had our preferences for gear, pictures, and sound. There were standards of course, but even those standards evolved into something else. The techies (likely engineers) had their opinions, and the operators had their opinions. Sometimes they were different, and sometimes the opinions were the same. Cameramen could make entertainers look good and audio ops could make them sound better.

After the basic needs were met, in the end it came down to the talent that separated the men from the boys (and the girls from the women :D )

Today's audio/video gear has improved greatly overall. But, that simpler antiquated gear (that I once operated) allowed the hit version Shaking All Over to be cut on the basic audio board . I did not record it, but I worked with the talent that did, and he could make guitars of any make or model sound good if the dude could play it. Although the band and producer may have, I don't think he ever questioned the look of the axe or questioned which pups were used. But, perhaps he had a preference :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Guitar Myths.
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:04 am
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I'm pretty biased as far as guitars and gear, I go on the cheap and I do a lot of DIY on my guitars.
You don't want to see the horrible things I've done to guitars over the years, but you have to admit that many priceless lessons have been learned.
So, having said that you guys are pretty savvy as far as gear and products are concerned.
Thanks a lot guys.


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