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Post subject: Fender Japan 72 reissue with Cst50 on body and neck
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:29 am
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Hi I'm considering to buy what a seller calls a Fender 70 (or 72) reissue made in Japan from 1985 with A03.. serial (total of 6 digit) on the back plate.
The strange thing is that he sent me pictures of the guitar disassembled and behinf the neck there is a CST-50R writing..same thing in the body cavity where there is a CST-50REX !
Searchin on the net I found those are stamp used on SQUIER designed woods and that the Fender should have had the ST-72 stamp!
Howewer the more I searched on the net the more I found guys telling the same thing on their Fender 72 reissue made in japan. And all those guys say to have bought personally the guitar in a shop in the 80s! So..it's like these guitars let the factory with squier stamped woods in '85

All other specs are matching a 72 reissue: big headstock; 3 bolt on neck with serial only on the triangular like back plate with a lare "F"; made in japan decal on the neck heel; pickups seems cloth wired. I asked everywhere and some people says that at the time woods used for squier and fender were the same..and the differences between the two was really impercettible..Fender had better electronics and pickup..
What do you guys think?


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Post subject: Re: Fender Japan 72 reissue with Cst50 on body and neck
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:12 am
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ehy84 wrote:
Hi I'm considering to buy what a seller calls a Fender 70 (or 72) reissue made in Japan from 1985 with A03.. serial (total of 6 digit) on the back plate.
The strange thing is that he sent me pictures of the guitar disassembled and behinf the neck there is a CST-50R writing..same thing in the body cavity where there is a CST-50REX !
Searchin on the net I found those are stamp used on SQUIER designed woods and that the Fender should have had the ST-72 stamp!
Howewer the more I searched on the net the more I found guys telling the same thing on their Fender 72 reissue made in japan. And all those guys say to have bought personally the guitar in a shop in the 80s! So..it's like these guitars let the factory with squier stamped woods in '85

All other specs are matching a 72 reissue: big headstock; 3 bolt on neck with serial only on the triangular like back plate with a lare "F"; made in japan decal on the neck heel; pickups seems cloth wired. I asked everywhere and some people says that at the time woods used for squier and fender were the same..
I will not say that

and the differences between the two was really impercettible..
Fender had better electronics and pickup..
Wich Fender ? there dozen of model

What do you guys think?
I will not buy a unknow part-o-caster , there is so many original and good guitar on market , just wait



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Post subject: Re: Fender Japan 72 reissue with Cst50 on body and neck
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:02 am
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No 80s Japan made experts ?


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Post subject: Re: Fender Japan 72 reissue with Cst50 on body and neck
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:16 am
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Is the body ash, alder, or basswood?

Ash was commonly used for the Fender-Japan 70's re-issues.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Fender Japan 72 reissue with Cst50 on body and neck
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:25 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Is the body ash, alder, or basswood?

Ash was commonly used for the Fender-Japan 70's re-issues.

Arjay
You tell me..I'm not able to recognize the wood

[img][IMG]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn161/gyzmo1/IMG-20150306-WA0000_zpsygtmtnsj.jpg[/img][/img]


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Post subject: Re: Fender Japan 72 reissue with Cst50 on body and neck
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:33 am
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ehy84 wrote:
No 80s Japan made experts ?


You post 4 hours ago.............until 4 days don't be surprise . :lol:

Or google !


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Post subject: Re: Fender Japan 72 reissue with Cst50 on body and neck
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:34 am
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Inspecting the unpainted area of the neck pocket is the only sure way to tell. Ash is prominently grained with generally coarse striations. By contrast, alder's grain is tighter and basswood is relatively featureless.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Fender Japan 72 reissue with Cst50 on body and neck
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:39 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Inspecting the unpainted area of the neck pocket is the only sure way to tell. Ash is prominently grained with generally coarse striations. By contrast, alder's grain is tighter and basswood is relatively featureless.

Arjay


That's the pick of the neck pocket. There are other pics in this album.

[img][IMG]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn161/gyzmo1/IMG-20150306-WA0008_zps6guokx6l.jpg[/img][/img]


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Post subject: Re: Fender Japan 72 reissue with Cst50 on body and neck
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:16 pm
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Google ; lots information here ;

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.blackman4/72.htm


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Post subject: Re: Fender Japan 72 reissue with Cst50 on body and neck
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:24 pm
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Instead of my usual long-winded gibber-gabber, I'll simply refer you to the following links...

http://planetbotch.blogspot.com/2011/12 ... trats.html

http://planetbotch.blogspot.com/2011/11 ... ssues.html

While the articles are primarily about the '57 and '62 reissues, the first does address the '70's style instruments of that era and while there are a couple of things I might question in those articles, most of the info is right on the money and tells the story better than I could.

Enjoy :-)


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Post subject: Re: Fender Japan 72 reissue with Cst50 on body and neck
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:46 pm
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Thanks but I read everything on the net about the 72 reissue!...3 day non stop of searchings! :lol:
Guitar looks a genuine made in japan 72 reissue with all the specs at the right place....My only doubts come from the fact that in the body cavity and neck there is a CST-50R stamped (that should be in line with Squier woods) and not ST-72 as expected. That's the only thing I'm asking...Is it possible that the guitar let the factory this way in 1985? Someone can confirm this? Or has a guitar like this?

Thank you!!! :wink:


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Post subject: Re: Fender Japan 72 reissue with Cst50 on body and neck
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:23 pm
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Hi,
(if memory serves) Fender U.S. didn't distribute any "reissue" style Strats until I believe, late 86 (at the earliest...may have even been 87) when the first 50's and 60's Strats were offered---then 62 Custom Teles and others followed (Paisley, Blue Flowers) . Until that time it was pretty much limited to the "Contemporary Series" with System 1, 2, and 3 trems.
It IS possible that Fender Japan offered a 70's model distributed outside the U.S. (more then likely primarily in Japan) as I recall seeing older "Twang" magazines with a decent offering in the late 80's.
http://www.daeschler.com/articles/fujigen/ talks a bit about it.
cheers,
FRR34

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Post subject: Re: Fender Japan 72 reissue with Cst50 on body and neck
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 2:06 pm
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[quote="FRR34"]Hi,
(if memory serves) Fender U.S. didn't distribute any "reissue" style Strats until I believe, late 86 (at the earliest...may have even been 87) when the first 50's and 60's Strats were o

The guitar is a Japan made. This is out of doubt as I said in the title thread and in my first post.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Japan 72 reissue with Cst50 on body and neck
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 2:42 pm
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ehy84 wrote:
FRR34 wrote:
Hi,
(if memory serves) Fender U.S. didn't distribute any "reissue" style Strats until I believe, late 86 (at the earliest...may have even been 87) when the first 50's and 60's Strats were o

The guitar is a Japan made. This is out of doubt as I said in the title thread and in my first post.


No argument as to where it was made here.

When it was made and where it was originally distributed is a question. Just my one cents worth.
Cheers,
FRR34

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Post subject: Re: Fender Japan 72 reissue with Cst50 on body and neck
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:59 am
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ehy84 wrote:
Thanks but I read everything on the net about the 72 reissue!...3 day non stop of searchings! :lol:
Guitar looks a genuine made in japan 72 reissue with all the specs at the right place....My only doubts come from the fact that in the body cavity and neck there is a CST-50R stamped (that should be in line with Squier woods) and not ST-72 as expected. That's the only thing I'm asking...Is it possible that the guitar let the factory this way in 1985? Someone can confirm this? Or has a guitar like this?

Thank you!!! :wink:


I was hoping you'd gather this from the link I had posted, however.....

The truth here is that I wouldn't get too hung up on the stamps. If these were in fact from Fujigen, then the stamps are often inconsistent...I can tell you for a fact that some of the Squiers were stamped with the ST designation - I have an '87 Squier and the neck is stamped ST-362. If anything, the ST designations seem just as common on both the Squier and Fender branded instruments. In this case, regardless of whether it's Fender or Squier, the popular consensus seems to be that the ST portion of the designation simply means "Strat"....I strongly suspect the same is true of the CST designation as well (I seem to remember reading that "CST" simply meant "Contemporary Strat" but I could be wrong there).

I've read in a few places now that the Squier and Fender instruments that came out of Fujigen were virtually identical...the ONLY difference with many of them was the headstock decal. Since there don't seem to be any definitive records from this era it's hard to be certain, however I strongly suspect that many of the bodies and necks from that plant were made ahead of time (just as they often are today in Corona, Baja, etc), then decals and final finishes were added as the demand called for. If that was in fact the case, then it would make sense that such body stamps could be inconsistent as the bodies and necks were likely stamped before headstock decals were applied.



Now with that all said, if you're still concerned regarding the stamping issue, my suggestion would be to ignore the stamp completely and take a very close look at the headstock. Yes, many of the Squiers over the years have been "altered" because of the ridiculous stigma over the name (it's amazing how many of the MIM "Squier Series" I've seen where those words were just sanded off the ear of the head stock). -If- the head stock logo has been altered, there's a better than average chance that it will be noticeable. The greatest majority of people who do such alterations tend to be...well...idiots...and as such, tend to do hack jobs. If it looks like the decal has clearly been replaced...if there are evident sanding marks, if the decal is applied OVER the clear coat or of the clear coat looks inconsistent around the decal, etc....then I'd steer away from the instrument. If nothing else, goodness only knows what else has been replaced (such as pickups, etc). On the other hand, if the decal looks authentic (and I suspect it probably is) and everything else looks consistent as you suggest (I'd also look for extra screw holes, blotchy soldering, etc), then I honestly wouldn't sweat the stamp at all.

Also, as long as I'm here...
Quote:
Fender had better electronics and pickup
...that's not always or specifically true with the Japanese instruments. According to hearsay, some of the earliest JV's did use surplus American pickups, however by the time other series went into production any such surplus was very likely used up. The majority of Strats that came out of Japan well into the mid 80's, be it Fender or Squier, primarily used Japanese made electronics. Also, while this is a bit subjective, while people like to get excited over the thought that their Japanese Strat may have American pickups, I would also point out that said pickups would have been CBS era pickups. A lot of folks seem to have REALLY short memories about this, but there was a time when CBS era Fender was consider as little more than a REALLY bad joke...most people interested in Fender wanted "pre-BS". I remember the mid 80's well - local music stores had guitars like used Mustangs and Jaguars for as little as $50 to $75...they just couldn't give the damn things away. In fact I got my '73 Bandmaster (tube head) back around '84 in -pristine- condition for a whopping $75. Back then, no one wanted CBS Fender equipment...and for a damn good reason.

In any case, the electronics that came out of Japan were in fact pretty decent...whether they were comparable to US made of that same era is debatable, however the truth is we're not talking about the low quality pots and pickups and such that come in later imports such as Korea and CIC. The Japanese electronics are generally good quality and tend to sound pretty sweet :-)



Regarding FFR's comment about reissues, while I'm not exactly sure the exact point he (she) was trying to make, I would take those comments with a proverbial pinch of salt. It's true that the '57, '62 and 70's models weren't considered "official reissues", like those Fender created in later years. In fact there seems to be some evidence that Fujigen may have mixed and matched bodies and necks on occasion...there seem to be some of these Strats around that have '57 bodies with '62 necks, etc. (although whether necks and bodies were swapped later is unclear). That said however, I would also add that these instrument were, according to tale, "based" on the originals...originals from the given era were precisely spec'd out and used as templates. In short, by the time the 80's rolled around, the Japanese guitar makers had become quite adept at replicating vintage American guitars...some folks feel that companies, such as Tokai for example, were make better Strats than CBS Fender was at the time (the introduction of "Fender Japan" was of course intended in great part to combat this issue). My point here is that regardless of any official designation as a "reissue", these instruments as a whole have a well earned reputation as being very good reproductions.

Also, while some of these instruments were never officially released here in the US (although many, such as the E-series were during the change over), it should go without saying that over the course of 30 years or so, that a great many of the instruments only introduced in the Japanese market have indeed migrated here, so it's not unheard of at all to run into one.



Just my $02...use it for what it's worth.


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