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Post subject: Brass Neck Screw Inserts...opinions?
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:02 pm
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Are these any more than repair items or is the supposed tone improvement just wishful Marketing? :mrgreen:

Anybody have an opinion? (as if) :lol:



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Post subject: Re: Brass Neck Screw Inserts...opinions?
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:56 pm
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Personally... I would only go there if there was a prob with the threads being stripped out.

I'm not a luthier... but, from what I've been able to observe... the sonic transfer happens with the neck contact to the body... at the heal in particular... if there's a nice, tight contact there... you'll have sustain and good tone. I honestly don't see where there would be any real benefit from using those inserts from a sonic/tone perspective.

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Post subject: Re: Brass Neck Screw Inserts...opinions?
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:22 pm
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Probably, any tone improvement would be from better/tighter neck connection as mentioned. But yes, unless the holes are stripped, no need for a change, as I doubt you would get a better neck connection by switching to these.

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Post subject: Re: Brass Neck Screw Inserts...opinions?
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:43 pm
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IMO nothing more than......

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:lol:

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Post subject: Re: Brass Neck Screw Inserts...opinions?
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:31 pm
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You don't think that these would work for stripped out screw holes?

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Post subject: Re: Brass Neck Screw Inserts...opinions?
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:23 am
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While I suspect these would work for a stripped screw hold, honestly...most people I've known simply plug the stripped hole and re-drill.

Mainly these seem more like a gimmick to me. Over the years, "brass" has developed some interest regarding guitar parts...brass trem blocks, brass nuts (dirty, LOL!), etc.. I seem to remember that a few years back someone had came out with something called a "Fat Finger"...some kind of brass clamp that you put on your headstock to give the neck/headstock more mass. In that regard, personally I think it's just more of a taste thing really, mainly motivated by people who are bored with their "sound" but don't want to invest in new pickups. I did try a brass trem block once myself on one of my MIM's...and yea, it did produce a much brighter tone...didn't really care for it though and put the steel block back on the next string change.

That said, whether or not brass inserts for the new screws would make any significant difference regarding tone is really questionable...as others have suggested, most of the tone and sustain comes from the contact of the neck with the body. The screws just make sure everything stays tight and secured.

Again, these might work for stripped screw holes, but more traditional methods of repair work just as well as any gimmick.


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Post subject: Re: Brass Neck Screw Inserts...opinions?
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:45 am
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shimmilou wrote:
You don't think that these would work for stripped out screw holes?


you mean the Turd Polish right???

:lol:


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Post subject: Re: Brass Neck Screw Inserts...opinions?
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:01 am
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shimmilou wrote:
You don't think that these would work for stripped out screw holes?

I've never used one..they seem like they would work.. :)

I've heard both sides of this tale..some builds are done like this from concept..

I agree that the contact between Neck and Body transmits vibrations..

I know that my hands & body feel and respond to it..

I think electronics affect the sound coming out of the speaker overwhelmingly more than "body vibration/harmonics"..

..but not as much as the Tone/sound is affected by the player himself..

Hear it better + Feel it better = Play better

Like they say..a great player can make ANY guitar play better..

I'd certainly like to hear from anyone who actually USED THEM :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Brass Neck Screw Inserts...opinions?
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:12 am
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Aw, c'mon boys and girls - it's just a different solution for the neck joint. Better or worse, take your pick (pun intended).
Seems to me it's used more in basses than guitars. Go figure.


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Post subject: Re: Brass Neck Screw Inserts...opinions?
Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:51 pm
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As a luthier, I have not contemplated the use of brass screw inserts. Whenever I need to carry out a repair of this type I use plugs which I make from the offcuts generated when making necks. I carefully drill the holes and glue in the plugs using Titebond. When the glue has set, the plugs are then sanded until they are level with the original neck wood. I then drill the pilot holes as I would on a new neck.

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Post subject: Re: Brass Neck Screw Inserts...opinions?
Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:10 am
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I have used these a great deal in joinery (my trade). They are used extensively in particle and low density boards and where there is a requirement for subsequent disassembly or reassembly.

The wider thread allows a greater spread of connection loads into the receiving material and the metal threads make the number of times you assemble/disassemble almost irrelevant. Certainly not something you can consider with wood screws. I would suggest, with these, removing a neck to take a guitar on a plane, would not be detrimental in any way (at least in respect of subsequent reconnection). I would be less enthusiastic in suggesting the same of a screw connection as you can never tell how good the screw connection will be next time around.

Sometimes a screw will marry up with the original thread and sometimes it will cut a new thread. Also when you first put in a screw it pulls the projecting wood fibres in the direction of the turn (it is by this same principal that nails work) The first time you undo a screw you have to reverse the direction of these fibres as they will resist the turning of the screw initially. Some of these fibres will break as a result. Next time the screw connection (even if it does mate with the original thread) will not be as good as the first time. You only ever get the full integrity of a screw connection once for this reason. Plugging the hole with timber does not produce the same effect because the screw is into the end grain of the plug. The plug will fill the gaps but can not reproduce the integrity of the first screw connection (it may be "good enough" none the less) The only way to reproduce all the aspects of the original is to use a larger screw.

Over the years the general quality and density of hardwoods has diminished - even in maple as they fell younger, faster growing trees. Using these will allow a better connection into lower density timber.

I have always been surprised that Fender necks are only held on with screws and, in my mind, these provide a better connection.

So mechanically and practically they are better than a wood screw.

From an acoustic stand point your guess is as good as mine. Logic would suggest that including another material in the harmonic chain will change the overall harmonics slightly but this might be off set by a better interface between the neck and body. Wether (with all the other harmonic mush present in a guitar) the human ear could tell the difference I am sure this will provide ammunition for years of BS.

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Post subject: Re: Brass Neck Screw Inserts...opinions?
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:08 am
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Thanks John...are answers requiring thought extra? :lol:

What you're saying makes sense...a lot of us take the neck off routinely and without a thought to the changes in the Neck - Body connection...

...I haven't felt/heard a difference in my guitars...but it may be minute AND incremental...

Personally I believe the vibrations we feel are not transmitted to the Pickup...but who knows...

...but they ARE felt by the body/hands and provide feedback and an "physical/emotional closed circuit" with the player.

Has anyone used these in a guitar and have you felt/heard any difference?

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Post subject: Re: Brass Neck Screw Inserts...opinions?
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:21 pm
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danagos wrote:
...the vibrations we feel are not transmitted to the Pickup...but who knows.....


Maybe not enough to make a difference in sound, but the vibrations are transferred to the strings, as part of the resonant system of a guitar.

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Post subject: Re: Brass Neck Screw Inserts...opinions?
Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:33 am
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shimmilou wrote:
danagos wrote:
...the vibrations we feel are not transmitted to the Pickup...but who knows.....


Maybe not enough to make a difference in sound, but the vibrations are transferred to the strings, as part of the resonant system of a guitar.

True Shimmilou...I'm not smart enough to figure that one out :) ...it just works when I feel the feedback vibrations...

...does everyone play their Strat unplugged?

..I do that quite a bit...especially the one with a Mid Boost installed :D

...I pay attention less to the result from the amp..

...and more closely to the feel & slight acoustic sound of the Instrument...

...the weather is warming here...humidity's coming up...it's time to tweak the Neck...starting to buzz a little :D

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Post subject: Re: Brass Neck Screw Inserts...opinions?
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:38 am
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From this woodworkers perspective, wood inserts, as they re commonly referred to are a superior connection to the old ( 1940's ) screw in wood neck / body joining.
Keep in mind when Leo designed the Telecaster and the Stratocaster, it was with cost and simplification. His feedback from pro musicians was the need to be able to repair or replace any part of their guitars quickly. That was not possible with Gibsons, Epiphones or any of the current guitars used by Pro musicians at the time.
Leo took their feedback and applied his engineering skills to find solutions. Even though the wood screw method allows disassembly, it is nevertheless not designed to be disassembled and reassembled repeatedly as is so common today. Only when something is wrong. No need to remove the neck when serial numbers match archive.

Since popular un-wisdom today is to automatically take apart a Strat or Tele, the weakest point is the neck heel body joint screw fastening. Each time a screw is retightened into the screw hole in a wood body, retightening slightly enlarges the screwholes so that after repeated dismantlings, the screws reach max depth travel. The back plate prevents the screw from driving deeper into the neck holes thus the screw begins to strip out the cutout threads in the neck.

Wood inserts eliminate the problem. They are most definitely not a gimmick. We use them in remodeling, cabinetry build and I use them in all my guitar builds, actually it's one of the 1st upgrades I will perform in any guitar I buy. It's an easy simple upgrade.
I illustrated this in my build threads.
But wood inserts are also recommended in at least 2 quite reputable build books that I know of.

(1) How to build Electric Guitars by Will Kelly ( Clapton's guitar tech 1979-2010 ) isbn 978-0-7603-4224-4
Pages 34-35 illustrates the reasoning why.

(2) Dan Erlewine's Guitar Player Repair guide, 3rd edition isbn 10:0-87930-921-0
Pages 164-165

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