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Post subject: Clapton Strat gain problem
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:12 am
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Hi there!

I bought a Clapton Strat from -89 this autumn.

I love the instrument and the versatility with the built in boost and everything but I have a problem, it loses gain in the higher register. It’s hard to say where it starts but from the 12th fret on the 1st string you recognise a considerable weakness of the sound.

It would save me a great deal of trouble if someone knew what to do because it turned out to be somewhat of a struggle to locate the problem.

Old picups can loose gain over time but the guitar have the same problem with all three pickups (Fender vintage noiseless) witch makes me think that the problem is caused by the electronics. On the other hand, the problem is the same with the booster and tone controls active or “passive”.

My guess could be:

1. The tone control
2. The booster
3. The booster pot
4. The volume pot
5. All three microphones

Guitar technicians at a shop in Stockholm have tried to find the problem by measuring it without success.

If you have any knowledge or thoughts about this, pleas let me know.

A little more data:
I have switched to a fresh battery.
I have switched strings and checked the mounting of them etc.
The problem is clearly recognisable; in my Roland Micro Cube, In my Orange OR100 (2x12) and in the test gear in the technicians shop.


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Post subject: Re: Clapton Strat gain problem
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:51 am
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It is kind of difficult to troubleshoot something like this over a forum as even if someone else has experienced this issue it could still be something else on your ax. Is this something that always was, or did it develop slowly over time, or did it happen suddenly?

I do not think all 3 pups would develop this problem at the same time so I would rule that out unless everything else checks out. I would assume as a tech myself that if it is doing it active or passive that it is not the booster circuit itself, but it could be related to wiring issues to/from the circuit....the only real way to check that for certain would be to try another booster. It could be a pot problem and if your tech can not tell with a scope then it would make sense to try known working pots to see if this solves it. I am not suggesting to just throw parts at it but sometime "substitution" is the easiest way to find the culprit, or to at least eliminate what is not the culprit. Not so sure it is a tone pot as there are separate ones and like the pups it would be odd that both would go bad with the same problem at the same time, so focus on the volume one first.

It could also be the guitar itself dealing with setup. Do you notice any difference in level if you listen very carefully while the guitar is not plugged into an amp at all?

One last thing. Not to suggest this is the case but you say the techs did not find the problem by measuring, but did they say there was a problem for sure? Only reason I ask is all humans especially men (and even more especially electric guitar players) will get diminished hearing ability over time and it starts at the upper registers. No meter on the guitar could figure that out but a hearing test could if you suspect at all this could be possible.

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Post subject: Re: Clapton Strat gain problem
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:07 am
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I owned a CS Clapton, but I don't think the problem you have is related to the Clapton circuits. Every Strat I've ever owned has gotten weak at the upper frets of the high e and b strings. Some things you can try are to raise the high side of the pickups so you get a better signal on the high strings.
Change the E and B strings to a larger guage to get a stronger signal. If you're using 9's, then move up to D'Addario 9.5's or even 10's. I string my Strats with two sets of strings, partly because of this problem. I use D'Addario 9.5's for the high E,B, and G strings. and DR Blues 9's for the D, A and low E strings. I'm kind of an obsessive nut, but it works.
I could be wrong, and maybe you have some kind of other problem. But raising the pickups won't cost you anything, and I'll bet it helps.

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Post subject: Re: Clapton Strat gain problem
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:23 am
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That is interesting. I never noticed this happening and have owned at least 30 strats over the years and still have 4. However I always set them up with the pups raised towards the high side, I assumed everyone knew this especially a guitar tech which he says already checked it out. Strange. You are correct that this could possibly be the problem or might address it somewhat he says he only noticed this from the 12th fret up. You would think if it was a pickup height issue that it would be noticeable in all positions..... but never rule anything out is a good rule.

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Post subject: Re: Clapton Strat gain problem
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:46 am
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I tried to post a reply but it disappeared so I make an other attempt. Not used to this board yet...

Thank you all for quick responces!!

Use 10's so I think that should be alright.

My tinnitus is on a medium level but I here my Gibson and my Blade so this must be something else. (Got a good laugh tough!) :-)

I have my picups in a progressiva angle. My tech optimised just that as you assumed.

I will spend the evening listening to the guitar without an amp.

All good advice, thanx a bunch!


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Post subject: Re: Clapton Strat gain problem
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:55 am
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Two clarifications...

1. I bought it this autumn. It was like this when I bought it. (I can still return the purchase but there so much to like about this instrument (and the price) so I think I'd give it a chance.)

2. It's not only the 1st string above the 12th fret. It's frequency-related and starts a bit lower, around the 8th maybe. The same notes played on other strings and the problem is about the same.


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Post subject: Re: Clapton Strat gain problem
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:58 am
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Well I hope it gets figured out for you. Yeah I mentioned the hearing "tinnitus" because a few times that actually was the problem but if you only notice it on the Strat then it is safe to assume it is something else. Glad you got a laugh out of it. It is amazing I can still hear anything. Always played on big amps and never used hearing protection like an idiot.

Just read your next post.....Okay so we know it was always like this. I would check the setup before assuming it is anything electrical based on your explanation but it is hard to rule anything else out without being there to examine it myself because without knowing for certain if it happened suddenly or gradually broadens the possibilities.

I can add that I had somewhat of a similar issue on the hi E string (it was more of an overtone/harmonics issue at specific frequencies but did lower the level) on one of my custom strats and it ended up being nut related. Removing the string tree spacer solved it but there may have been other solutions as well.

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Post subject: Re: Clapton Strat gain problem
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:38 pm
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Here's two "tricks" to try - no guarantee they'd help but at least you remove some factors out of the equation:
Check the neck relief; if there's too much, the strings may resonate weakly, sort of on the verge of buzzing.
Try going opposite of the normal advice, lower the pickups a bit on the treble side - the magnetic pull may be suffocating the high strings.

Oh yeah, what position do you have the guitar volume pot when this gain loss is most noticeable?


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Post subject: Re: Clapton Strat gain problem
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:11 pm
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jmattis wrote:
Here's two "tricks" to try - no guarantee they'd help but at least you remove some factors out of the equation:
Check the neck relief; if there's too much, the strings may resonate weakly, sort of on the verge of buzzing.
Try going opposite of the normal advice, lower the pickups a bit on the treble side - the magnetic pull may be suffocating the high strings.

Oh yeah, what position do you have the guitar volume pot when this gain loss is most noticeable?


You may be onto something with the relief, or at least it being resonance related. He states and I quote "The same notes played on other strings and the problem is about the same.". Granted this may be electronics related being electronics and resonance are related, I think if he does as I suggested previously and carefully listen with the guitar non amplified it might lead to eliminating it as an electrical issue which would be a great help with advice on where to focus to nail down the culprit.

Of course if he notices no issue at all with the Strat unplugged we can pretty much rule out any resonance issues due to physical setup and focus on electronics.

To add there can be many factors that can cause resonance issues leading to cancellation, unless there is some kind of anomaly with the body or neck wood it would most likely be neck setup related or most logically something from nut to bridge....granted even a messed up tuner could theoretically cause resonance issues with a standard non locking nut. Being he is not the original owner and he claims it had this problem since day one.... it really makes it that much more difficult to determine for us.

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Post subject: Re: Clapton Strat gain problem
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:56 am
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I assume ' -89' means this guitar is at least 25 years old. Laces Sensors are not effected by magnetic damping so that's out of the picture as is battery health.

I'm also giving it to understand that the gain does not drop as the pot controlling the midboost is turned to its maxium. If that is not the case, suggest you clean the pot.

If it truly appears to be due to something in the setup that is effecting string vibration, well Clapton played that model guitar for nearly ten years and did most of his soloing high up on the neck apparently without issue.

I would have that guitar taken apart so as to evaluate an diagnose each component of the setup individually. Check the cut of the nut, fret wear, neck alignment. You may need a leveling or a refret somewhere. The condition of the bridge, saddles and screws, including the trem block and claw should be assessed. This guitar's setup ideally should have the trem claw flush against the wood, with five springs in place and a wood block snugly fit between the bridge's mass block and the guitar. However, there's nothing to prevent you from floating the bridge to your liking. Setup the guitar with at least 9's. The guitar is supplied with 10's for reasons of vintage vibe, but 9's or 9.5's should be acceptable as well. Keep us posted.

Doc :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Clapton Strat gain problem
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:22 am
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Hi all!

I'm impressed and grateful for all your advice!

I've been back to my tech to check a few of the things you mention.

The relief is ok. We can't see or hear any resonance problem. The string hight is medium, not very low. We even lifted the e-string a little to see if it changed anything. It didn't.

The problem is the same with the mid boost on max. It's the same on all pickups, with the pots in all positions.

It's really hard to tell if the problem is of an acoustic or electric nature. I will spend this evening (again) playing without an amp, switching from the Strat to my Gibson. (The Gibson is a -57 Special. That piece of wood really gives another acoustic punch. Its hard to compare)

I know another expert, who builds guitars from the ground. I could try to reach him and let him have a look. He might be a better judge of the acoustics.

The best dynamic is reached with all pickups in an extreme progressive angle. This is not a good solution for other reasons. String 2 and 3 are boosted to, you hit the pickup with the fret etc.

One question, more from curiosity, are the new Clapton Stratocasters still equipped with Lace Sensors or did they change to another pickup manufacturer. When? Why?

Cheers!

/Olle


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Post subject: Re: Clapton Strat gain problem
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:06 am
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ollenys wrote:
One question, more from curiosity, are the new Clapton Stratocasters still equipped with Lace Sensors or did they change to another pickup manufacturer. When? Why?Olle

Your question broaches a subject we've had a gazillion discussions about across the past 7.5 years of the Forum's existence. I'll give you a short general overview of what we know or suspect. I trust that there will be additional contributions from others who enjoy memorizing dotted 'eyes' and crossed 'tees'. That's what makes this joint so special.

The agreement which FMIC enjoyed with Actodyne Industries and Don Lace who invented the pickup ended around the turn of the century. We suspect it had something to do with the fact that Fender wanted to run on its own with that guitar and had developed its own vintage noiseless pickup which it sent to Clapton for approval. Having received same, they forged ahead.

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Post subject: Re: Clapton Strat gain problem
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:29 am
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ollenys wrote:
are the new Clapton Stratocasters still equipped with Lace Sensors?


Masterbuilt EC Customs came shipped with Lace pickups as custom orders until February 2010; from that date Eric stopped using them and the guitars he plays for the slide repertoire were fitted with the same pickups and electronics as his main personal axes. It was during that time he told Fender to drop Candy Green and Gold Leaf Metallic from their colour chart.

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