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Post subject: Fender MiM Classic 60 - Neck problems (?)
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:54 pm
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Hello guys.

Its my first post in this forum but im not really new to Fender. Had some AmStandards in the 90s and was happy with them.

Now i bought a MiM model, the Classic 60s one in Candy Apple red. While the overall look&feel was good - the neck made me thinking.

I try to explain it as best as i can, english isnt my main language, sorry.

The rosewood-fingerboard itself has a different thickness. Starting at the first fret its like 5+mm but on fret 3 its starts to get thinner to be at around 2.5mm from fret 5 to the last one. Starting from there its all the same up to the body, it stays at around 2.5mm, maybe it rises a bit to 3 but overall its gets better. So only the first frets are noticable higher than the rest.

If i look from behind (where the body is located to the head) there seems to be enough "meat" overall, it has the old vintage radius so its pretty rounded and the wood looks thick enough overall.

Please look at the picks and let me know if you think this may be a problem when refretting, or any other things that may come up because of it.

Thanks!


First image is an "optical illusion", its not really that much as it looks like at first look. The angle makes it looking more bad as it is.

Image

Image

Image


Last edited by Senchay on Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Fender MiM Classic 60 - Neck problems (?)
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:02 pm
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While it may be a bit odd (visually), if there are no playability issues nor sonic "dead spots" anywhere on the fretboard, I doubt that there'll be any problems in the future.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Fender MiM Classic 60 - Neck problems (?)
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:45 pm
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Have to agree with Arjay on this one, if no intonation problems now, don't see how as it wears it would have any affect with a fret job. I have one of these guitars (same one in fact) and mine has no such issue, could be just the difference in some of the hand sanding that happens with necks.

Enjoy the guitar.

T2

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Post subject: Re: Fender MiM Classic 60 - Neck problems (?)
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:46 pm
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Any chance of properly resizing those photos?
They're way too big!

TIA


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Post subject: Re: Fender MiM Classic 60 - Neck problems (?)
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:31 pm
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I resized them to 25%, still too big for this page but should be better.

On the first you see it best, the next 2 pics should only show the difference in height at the diferent frets.

Thanks so far for your input.

I cannot see any intonation problems at this time, no.

What other people told me that, if frets have to be renewed, it could make problems because they think that the fretboard had to be refitted by a lot to make it fit the neck and therefore the frets have to be hadrly optimized. What can cause a far higher price as usual.

Like that, dunno if i rephrase that correctly.


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Post subject: Re: Fender MiM Classic 60 - Neck problems (?)
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:32 pm
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Hey Senchay, and welcome.
Is there any reason why you think this guitar may need a re-fret in the immediate future? I've only ever had to have one guitar re-fretted, and that was after nearly twenty years of daily use playing punk rock barre chords (a '72 Strat I bought in '78, and had re-fretted in 2000). Many players will go the lifetime of the neck never needing more than a crowning/dressing/leveling.
Or are you asking about string height from the fretboard?
Have you tried adjusting the relief in the neck? Or raising/lowering the bridge saddles to your preferred string height?
Or are you asking about the overall thickness of the rosewood fretboard itself, over the length of the neck?
I'm with the others, as long as the neck is straight, and without buzzing/dead spots, or intonation issues, I don't see where that would be a problem.
Do a good set up, or get a professional to do it for you if you're uncomfortable doing it yourself.
Just don't get talked into spending big money on a re-fret job until you really need one, and all other options have been exhausted.


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Post subject: Re: Fender MiM Classic 60 - Neck problems (?)
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:09 pm
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Well, i play a lot and i had some of my guitars to be refretted already so i have that i bit in mind.

@nyquilcoma

yes, i talk about the thickness of the fingerboard itself. Its not the same thickness. Its starts with 5+mm and goes down to 2mm to rise again at the higher frets to 3mm. And i dont mean the fretboard radius here. I mean if looking at the length of the fretboard. As seen clearly in pic one. Fret one has the rosewood nearly in the double height as the rest.

It was the very first thing that jumped into my eyes when holding the guit for the first time at home. Its very visible and i never saw a fingerboard the different in shape.

I have a cheap Ibanez 350 RG here that is 200 Euro less in price and it has a very constant rosewood board. Not to talk about more expensive guitars.

Also my other guitars have the white dots that you see on the pic exactly in the middle of the rosewood. But on this guitar half of the dot is in maple and the other half sticks in rosewood. Thats a new one for me and also made me wonder.

So it made me wonder. But im very ok if its no problem. The optical aspect is not the top priority for me as long the guitar itself fits my taste.
I just want to have the same quality like other may have, so i wanted to assure that.

Thanks again for input


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Post subject: Re: Fender MiM Classic 60 - Neck problems (?)
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:55 pm
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Hey Senchay,
I looked at your pictures again, and I see quite clearly what you are talking about now. You are correct, there is a quite noticeable difference in the thickness of the rosewood fretboard from the lower to the upper frets.
Once again, as long as the neck and the string height are able to be properly adjusted, and there are no tuning or intonation problems, I don't think this should present much of a issue in terms of playability.
However, if you bought this guitar new from a reputable dealer, you may have cause for a complaint, and you may be able to negotiate an exchange, or rebate, or credit towards a future purchase, should you choose to pursue the matter.
Me, if I really liked the guitar, I'd hold onto it.
I thought I was a pretty heavy touch player, but as I said, I've only had to have one re-fret in over 35 years of playing. Fenders are pretty heavy duty, hopefully it will take you several years of banging away to make much of a dent in those frets!
Good luck!


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Post subject: Re: Fender MiM Classic 60 - Neck problems (?)
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:30 am
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Yes, its new from an reputable online-shop here in germany.

Im not sure yet if i hold on to it, today i felt that it feels somewhat awkward when playing faster solos on the higher E-string and wondered why. Then i took a look at the fretboard-radius.

At some point near the B string the radius starts to get less, nearly non existent. That makes the "felt" height-difference from high E to B not enough . SInce this has a really big vintage style radius it makes it very noticable, all the rest is a lot more rounded.

Or is a non-symmetrical shaped radius normal and im just not used to the vintage radius?

Im not even sure someone understands what im saying^^ Sorry if my english is full of funnyness...

Oh, and yeah, sure they usually dont need to be refretted many times. You are right there. My American Standard lasted 10 years in my hands and i never had it to refret. Sadly i dont have it anymore...

But i had it happen, specially with medium or lower priced guitars. ALso, this frets are what we would call "Spaggheti-frets",, like the italian noodles. They areally not high...vitntage i guess. Its nowhere near my other medium-jumbos or something. I can see a refret coming here over the years.


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Post subject: Re: Fender MiM Classic 60 - Neck problems (?)
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:58 am
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Ok, to finish this post i wanted to let you know about the official word. SInce the pic they gave is original Fender and i am inside a Fender operated site i guess im allowed to post this.

Translated Fender said:

"Usually the fingerboard doesnt have a wider difference as one can see in the picture. While there are tolerances the shown fretboard shows signs of bad production and should be replaced."

Image

The dealer said

"THats very big difference... im sorry but i have to take it back. I cannot lower the price on this one as its clearly a faulty production and have to return it to Fender."

Again, thanks for the meanings but i guess this one goes back.


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Post subject: Re: Fender MiM Classic 60 - Neck problems (?)
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:07 pm
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Wow, this whole scenario keeps sounding worse and worse!
I've never owned a Mexican Fender-some love them and swear that they are every bit as good as their American or Japanese counterparts, save for some replaceable hardware and pickups. Others have said that the quality and attention to detail can be found lacking.
Clearly you received a defective product that slipped past the quality control department at Fender Mexico.
Fortunately, there's something to be said for dealing with a supplier that cares about its reputation for selling a quality product. Your dealer did the right thing and took the guitar back for an exchange/refund. Hope your next instrument lives up to your expectations.
Glad things turned out well for you.


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Post subject: Re: Fender MiM Classic 60 - Neck problems (?)
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:50 pm
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nyquilcoma wrote:
Your dealer did the right thing and took the guitar back for an exchange/refund. Hope your next instrument lives up to your expectations.


+1

Clearly there was something amiss with the neck and that it caused some obsessive feelings is more than a sufficient reason for exchanging the instrument for one that's flawless in every aspect.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Fender MiM Classic 60 - Neck problems (?)
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:31 pm
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Hehe.

I thought it was the end but it seems not and i surely dont want to give people here a bad imagination of Fender Mexico. Ok here is the update....dont think im crazy but if one never saw necks like that and different people tell different things one easyly can get carried away from the truth it seems...

A little more words but i want to explain how it came to the new conclusion^^

After all the posts here and on various german board i luckily started a blues lesson DVD that i own to get carried away from the bad feeling. The guy there plays a Custom shop Strat, also with vintage neck. The first thing the went into my eyes was his fretboard... it had for sure even 1 millimeter less (sorry, no clue about inches) at the postition of the 21 fret.

See here

Image

Image


This is mine, one clearly can see that i have a bit more "meat" there. And that his white dots are even more in the maple than mine. Funny thing... i really never saw that there are guitars like that. I have many, from Ibanez over Schecter to Fernadez so really, excuse me if i took the wrong conclusion out of that too early.

Image

So then i really thought "WTH" and went to another well know german musicians forum and started to ask about the other peoples vintage necks. Probably 80% of them told me the same, it looks like mine...Then i went to a store website where they have vintage radius necks and standards. The vintage looked same as mine, while the standard have a higher rosewood fingerboard on it.

The reason that the rosewood is higher at the first frets is a logical one, its the nut that needs the place...and that it is not as high as the usual fingerboard on the 21. fret is because for the stronger radius of the vintage neck the wood needs to be "sahved" more at the higher frets. At least thats what i see and if think logically it has to be like that.

I only knew necks like this, all my guitars are like that:

Image

Never saw this here before and that made me wonder.

Image

Why the store and Fender itself told me its a faulty production, im not sure... Maybe its not easy enough to telll from the pics.

Well... still im not 100% certain whats going on but i guess i keep it because anyway the things was 200 euro less from the original price. I payed 500 Euro instead of 680 like in some other shops. So the end of the story is that i may have a usual guitar, maybe with a little bitt tolerance to the usual vintage necks but at the moment i stopped thinking its faulty....


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Post subject: Re: Fender MiM Classic 60 - Neck problems (?)
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:31 pm
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I had a 60's Classic that had thicker rosewood at the headstock end of the fretboard and thinner at the body joint. I thought Suhr might have did a fretboard job on it. :wink:
I think he received big bucks from Knoffler for doing that on his guitars...I believe it was called a shaved fretboard?

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Post subject: Re: Fender MiM Classic 60 - Neck problems (?)
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:55 am
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Sounds interesting.

But im even more sure now that its no problem. Look at this pics and one can see that every single one with a vintage style neck is like this.

Custom Shop Anniversary Strat, 5000 Euro
Image

71´s original Vintage neck
Image

MiM Standard
Image

While the pics only show the back end one can imagine the front has to higher, else the nut would fall out.

Every single one has this...im very unsure why the shop told me this is wrong. Anway, im pretty sure its not.


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