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Post subject: which Strat to choose?
Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:46 pm
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O.K. not a new topic maybe but new for me. I have a Fender Tele and a Dearmond Les Paul clone and feel all I need is a Strat. But these days it seems you can't just get a Fender Strat you need to choose from among a dizzying array. Now I know the best way would be to try some out but I just want to narrow the field since no one place within my reach has all of them. I'm not interested in the more gimmicky models with sim cards and battery powered extras. I guess I'm looking for opinions on Texas special pick-ups compared to the more usual type versus a HSS style. If you already have a guitar with humbuckers is an HSS necessary? Does Fender make a MIM with Texas specials or an HSS configuration? I need to stay out of the 1K price range.

Thanks for any advice


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Post subject: Re: which Strat to choose?
Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:48 pm
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"I need to stay out of the 1K price range"

Back in 2006, I decided on an American Deluxe HSS Stratocaster. I chose that model specifically because I wanted a real workhorse of a guitar. That is, a guitar that would be useful in the widest possible range of musical settings. Kind of a "if you could only own one guitar..." type thing.

Have to say, the deluxe has performed perfectly in that role.

Here's a tip: Don't let the listed web price scare you. The model I chose was listed at $1600 or so back in 2006. I bought it for exactly $950, straight from guitar center. I know it's intimidating, but take the time to haggle with the salesperson at GC (or wherever you shop). You may very well find that they're willing to let the guitar go for close-to-cost, particularly with an "upscale" model like the deluxe. Just say something like "I've got $850.00 to spend and I want this particular model".

Your mileage may vary, but it's worth a bit of negotiation to get a really fine piece.


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Post subject: Re: which Strat to choose?
Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:58 pm
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+1 on the American Deluxe !

Very versatile !

cheers!

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'11 FSR Am. Vtg. Ltd. Ed. CAR '57 Stratocaster (SN# LE02639)
'14 American Deluxe Ash Stratocaster
'12 Telebration Empress Telecaster
'99 Deluxe Nashville Telecaster
'12 FSR Telecaster HH
'10 Heritage H-535
'99 Martin DC-1E
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Post subject: Re: which Strat to choose?
Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:07 pm
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An Am Dlx HSS would be a fine choice. Since you already have a hum-bucker equipped guitar, you might want to consider an Am Std SSS, a newer model 2012 - present, with Fat 50s pups, absolutely wonderful, classic Strat sound. :idea: (I have both, and mainly prefer the SSS overall)

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Post subject: Re: which Strat to choose?
Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:02 pm
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I have a 2005 US standard tele and a 2012 US special strat. The strat has Texas Special pickups in it and I totally love them! I think they will suit what you're after. You see, the middle pickup is reverse wound so you get a humbucker effect in positions 2 & 4 (-when the middle is combined with either the bridge or the neck pickup). It's really noticeable when you're playing at loud volumes. If I start to hear any faint hum or hiss, when I switch to position 2 or 4 it goes away instantly. I also noticed that these pickups don't need to be set as high as most others. As they are overwound and a bit on the "hot" side I found my "sweet-spot" to be much lower than with normal pickups. These pickups are also in the Stevie Ray Vaughan signature strat as well.
I'm not sure where you live but the Fender site in the USA is selling the American Special Strat for $999.00. If I were you with $1000 that's what I'd go for. Here's a photo of mine on the day it arrived, just out of the box in September 2012:
Image

Back then the only colours available were Candy Apple Red and Two-tone sunburst. About six months later they introduced Surf Green and there was a few limited edition white ones as well. The neck on them is a modern C profile, jumbo frets, very finger friendly...by far the best value for money in that price range. You can easily pay more for some of the MIM guitars out at the moment. To me, a proper American made Fender will always hold it's re-sale value much better than a MIM or MIJ. If you look after it and keep it original, in 30 years time you're guaranteed to get back more than you paid! Anyway, that's a bit beside the point, I guess all I'm saying is the American Special is perfect for you. It saves you getting another HSS -with this guitar you can potentially have it as a SSS or a HSS/SSH.
Best of all worlds!
:-)

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Post subject: Re: which Strat to choose?
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:48 am
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It never ceases to amaze me that someone like the OP here will say "I need to stay out of the 1K price range" and inevitably people around here will start suggesting $1000+ American Strats. So much for literacy in the face of nationalistic pride I guess.... Anyways, I'm gonna address a few comments here, both questions from the OP and a few others. There are strictly my own personal opinions, so please take them as such...

Quote:
"I guess I'm looking for opinions on Texas special pick-ups compared to the more usual type versus a HSS style. If you already have a guitar with humbuckers is an HSS necessary? Does Fender make a MIM with Texas specials or an HSS configuration? I need to stay out of the 1K price range."


The Texas special pickups are pretty popular with a lot of players, but personally I would suggest that you play a Strat that already has them installed as some tend to find them just a bit too harsh and/or thin and tinny sounding. Depending on what kind of music you play, they may work well or they may not. It's a taste thing and while I will admit that personally I prefer Duncans (or EMG's), the only real way for you to know for sure is to hear them yourself.

YES, there is a Fender MIM Standard with HSS configuration! Fat Strats have been around for a while now and if you check this website (Fender.com) you will see they do have such models currently listed in various options (including a few at http://www.squierguitars.com). I have a '99 and even with the stock pickups on this one, I'm rather fond of it. As to whether you "need" it or not since you already have another guitar with humbuckers, I look at like this... Personally I prefer the visual aesthetics of the SSS package...to me that just LOOKS like a Strat, however I'm not typically that fond of stock Fender pickups (Mexican, American or otherwise) and tend to favor Seymour Duncan humbuckers in a single coil package (I have 2 MIM's like this). That said, from strictly a sound perspective, with my '99 I also have to admit that it's like having the best of both worlds. It's nice to be able to switch from a more traditional Strat sound to that humbucker withOUT having to change guitars. A lot of it obviously depends on the music you play and your own individual playing style, however I personally think it's a nice convenience...I can go from doing Chicago Blues to ZZ Top all with the flip of a switch :-)

I would also briefly add that despite what some people always try to claim, the MIM Strats are excellent instruments and even if you should decide to purchase brand new, compared with the cost of an American model, you'll still have some bread left over should you decide to do any upgrades. Compared with the cost of a new American (yikes), for that $1000 you can get a new MIM (HSS or otherwise), upgrade the pickups and trem block yourself, have a smokin' instrument that's truly tailored to your own sound and style and you'll like STILL have some pocket change left over.

With this all said, I would suggest playing a few at some local dealers before you make your choice. You don't need to play "all of them", however you should let your own ears, hands and heart decide what is right for you. While logic and common sense never seem to stop people from waving the flag around here, the fact of the matter is that everyone has their own taste and preferences...what may be right for me or ANY other person on this forum, may be completely inappropriate for you. You need to decide what works best for your playing style and your music...you may even find that a plain ol' MIM Standard or even something else works better than anything listed here.

You're the one who will be playing it...you need to decide what's right.

Quote:
You may very well find that they're willing to let the guitar go for close-to-cost, particularly with an "upscale" model like the deluxe.


While this may have been true in the past and while it can apply to some used intruments, the truth is that today, Fender authorized dealers are pretty much required to sell the instruments at the same price (I've heard some smaller shop owners bitching their asses off about this). If you check the price of the exact same model Strat at Guitar Center, Sam Ash, Musician's Friend, Sweetwater and even at local authorized dealers, you'll see that instrument is priced the same...and in most cases, barring sales, blems or out of date models, they're not usually in a position to haggle. I can't speak to other areas of the country or other parts of the planet, but here in Ohio I have yet to see Guitar Center, Sam Ash, Musician's Alley, Zehal's or any other authorized Fender dealer budge on the price of a new instrument.


Quote:
You see, the middle pickup is reverse wound so you get a humbucker effect in positions 2 & 4...


Hmmm...wow...seems to me that most SSS Strats are wired like this, regardless of whether they're American, Mexican, Japanese, Indonesian, Chinese, etc.. Part of what makes a Strat "a Strat", regardless of it's origin. I also suspect that some could argue that this "humbucker effect" is NOT the same as a true humbucker, otherwise you wouldn't have HSS Strats, HH Strats, humbucking coils in single coil configurations (ala Duncans) and sooooooooo many other variations. This doesn't even consider that different brands and styles of pickups sound very different from each other...a typical Strat single coil for example sounds different than a p-90 and certainly a good Filtertron sounds different than a Gibson PAF or an EMG Area 61.

Yes, a Strat in the 2 and 4 positions will generally reduce some noise (give or take other issues such as proper shielding, the degree and type of electrical interference, your signal chain, etc), however I suspect that majority of reasonably experienced guitar players would agree single coils just do not sound the same as humbuckers, regardless of the switch setting.

Quote:
a proper American made Fender will always hold it's re-sale value much better than a MIM or MIJ.


All and all, we just ran this "theory" over at the Squier forum a few weeks back and honestly...it's not true. While I won't bother to re-run the numbers here, the truth is the depreciation between an American Standard and an MIM Standard is VERY similar...if you take the time to do the math, both work out to roughly around 40%. In fact, for those who bother to do the math, a Squier Standard works out to roughly 35% depreciation...a Squier Standard actually holds it's value BETTER than an American does.

I know that for whatever insane reason, people don't like to admit this but numbers don't lie...the idea that American Strats somehow hold their value better is simply a myth.

Quote:
If you look after it and keep it original, in 30 years time you're guaranteed to get back more than you paid!


This is a subjective statement at best as the same can be said for many guitar brands, regardless of make or origin. Consider Hondo's for example (a popular knock-off brand from yesteryear). Back in the day, those typically sold for WELL under $200...most were only $100 to $150 new. Yet today a Hondo in good condition can sell for as much as $200 to $300 dollars or more (similar can be said for brands such as Cort, Lotus and many others). This has NOTHING to do with the nature of an American Strat.

While there are many factors that contribute to all of this, public perception has a HUGE roll. For better or worse, I do remember the late 70's and early 80's and back in those days...honestly...A LOT of people saw Fender as a joke. I got my silverface Bandmaster around '83 for a whopping $75 because NO ONE wanted CBS era Fenders....everyone wanted "pre-BS" (anyone old enough to remember that term? LOL!). Used American made Fender Mustangs and Jag's often went for as little as $50...stores couldn't give the damn things away all because wow...they were American Fenders (I guess Sting was right...history can teach us nothing). Even Strats...with their 3 bolt necks, "bullet" truss rods and hit or miss electronics and wiring, very few people considered them as serious instruments. While some of that has faded over the years, there was a HUGE stigma back then that really drove prices down. Other American guitar makers had similar problems....Kramer certainly comes to mind. Another "American" company where the products were all over the board and quality control was practically non-existent. Some of their instruments were very well made...many were not.

When you're dealing with an instrument that's 30 years old or more, depreciation becomes a whole different game because it's more about the vintage market...and I might add that it is a market which is quite fickle to say the least. Unless you have some tempsecorical powers or some amazing precognition abilities, NO ONE can say what a guitar will be worth in 30 years, American, Japanese, Mexican or otherwise.


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Post subject: Re: which Strat to choose?
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:47 am
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MIM Lonestar Strat ($599) is HSS, with Texas Specials in neck and middle. Roadhouse Strat, also $599, is SSS with all Texas Special pickups..

http://www.fender.com/guitars/stratocas ... ml#start=1


Last edited by jimmyd0704 on Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: which Strat to choose?
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:12 pm
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Before you plunk down that cash, you might want to play the axe to make sure the single coils and humbuckers match the characteristics and level changes that will work for you (when switching or combining pickups). Sometimes the HSS tone change or level differences can be an issue which some can accept while others reject. Mixing and matching alternative pickups now or in the future may also come into being although, considering your 1K mention, I would think you'd want to get the stock setup more to your liking.

NB: Amn Deluxe N3 PUs are nicely made for recording while the HSS added non-N3 humbucker may support your needs in that camp (should you find a deal . . . perhaps, a mildly used or discounted new one). On the other hand , you likely know that Amn Deluxe has less choice of colours compared to some other Strat series like the Standard. MIM usually has many colour flavors. N3s may not be to your liking, for many of us they work fine and some may say they tend to be underrated, mostly because the majority of pickups are of a different nature for good and bad reasons. There are other gems to be sure (I like them too), and N3s are the new kids on the block with a short history yet to come. (Note: 1934 Humbucker invented. 1938 First string use -pianos, 1955 successfully used for Gibson Les Paul along with others such as Gretsch and Rickenbacker around that time. So it can take a while for pickup perfection and acceptance along with change). :wink:

Trust your ears and your hands (don't forget about the neck profile . . . it will make your playing more enjoyable). Great pickups aren't going to help if the basics are overlooked.

Some people like Chevies, others Fords, some like Marshall amps, some like Vox, and so on. So what works for me (an Amn Deluxe with single coils) through a Fender or what suits others is, again, subjective as I'm sure we would all tell you. Considering you have great suggestions from the gang here, and the fact that you have guitar experience, I'm sure you will find your Strat.

I agree that you might want to check out a variety, even if you may have initially ruled them out. Here the store is a great help in narrowing the field. Try different single coils with other single coils, humbuckers with humbuckers (as well, make sure you combine single coils to create humbucking, and S-1 switching if it applies), and combinations with combinations. Sad to say, even pickups that are alike can sound different, so try a couple of the same guitar once you've narrowed it down. If you can use the same or similar amp throughout (preferably one that you intend to use or get later) that would be best; at the very least, maybe a loaner guitar would be helpful (or an inexpensive rental). For me, trying out equipment all over town only increases the chance of forgetting what I heard earlier. Strangely, I still recall the sixties sound of my playing a friend's original '62 Strat. My reasoning behind that is, once you hear a '62 (for some it's other vintage tones) it's hard to forget, and I have retained a song from that experience in my head that I use for reference. Earlier on, effects were simple, a small variety, and less available; so basic tone is easier to remember. Getting to recall a favourite song and it's characteristics, and then knowing what Amp/FXs were used will all help to check out that new axe. Even if you can't play the song, play a corresponding chord or note reference that you are familiar with, or ask someone else if they can play your reference- it will usually help. You may not be able to have pedals and amp set up for a desired reproduction; however, a modeling pedal or modeling amp could likely suffice in this case. If something simple like a plain jane amp will do - go for it :D Of course we all know budget, availability, and service dictates how much travel amongst local dealers is needed somewhat.

2015 and 2014 models are here now so good luck on a great buy, I'm sure your budget will be okay to get your mojo. Whatever you choose - enjoy your choice.

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Last edited by Fender Strat Brat on Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: which Strat to choose?
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:25 pm
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Jesus, Iomitus, did you sit down with a pen and paper just to knit pick anything that can have another outcome or comment??
As far as what I said about it having a "humbucking effect" -that's all I said. No where did I even pretend to say that that is as good as a normal humbucker. Of course I know it isn't. I think you just want to have a whinge at somebody. Also, as far as when I talked about a USA strat having a better re-sale value -you can point at all the statistics you like but I know for a fact that if I were to take my American Special Strat and a 2nd hand Mexican made Road worn strat (valued more new) both into a pawn shop I will get more money for the MIA...all the statistics in the world won't change that "myth".
Anyway, I just wondered to myself "why am I even bothering to justify my comments to this opinionated moron?" I mean, I'm only giving friendly advice...not typing a legal document for F's sake. If you get your kicks out of knit-picking other people's posts (like a few people I've noticed seem to around these forums) you must either be really bored or really stupid. Either way, I don't want to read your biblically long BS posts anymore, I know that for sure!
:-)

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Post subject: Re: which Strat to choose?
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:11 pm
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One way to stretch your budget and get into $1,000+ guitars is to buy used.

There are many excellent used guitars out there, many looking 99% Factory Fresh.

Your goal should be to buy all the guitar you can for the money, not make the guitar conform to your budget.

cheers!

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'11 FSR Am. Vtg. Ltd. Ed. CAR '57 Stratocaster (SN# LE02639)
'14 American Deluxe Ash Stratocaster
'12 Telebration Empress Telecaster
'99 Deluxe Nashville Telecaster
'12 FSR Telecaster HH
'10 Heritage H-535
'99 Martin DC-1E
'13 Lanikai Tenor Ukulele


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Post subject: Re: which Strat to choose?
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:09 pm
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A lot of good answers there; thanks very much everyone. Yes I definitely want to play before I buy. In fact, I think I would rather not go the mail order route at all but purchase the actual guitar that hooks me in. I can definitely sympathize with StratBrat's comment about trying out too many different guitars (or amps, pedals, etc) and forgetting which was which. I think for starters I would like to try out one with Texas Specials and one with HSS and seem f either of those hooks me in. Used is an option but I don't see too many in my area right now. Thanks again.


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Post subject: Re: which Strat to choose?
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:47 pm
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Dan999 wrote:
Jesus, Iomitus, did you sit down with a pen and paper just to knit pick anything that can have another outcome or comment??


As I originally stated, I simply provided my own opinions and corrected some erroneous information provided by others. I will admit that I type 80 wpm and further that I am NOT a man of few words, however I would also add that in my world (particularly as an artist), details are a GOOD thing...if you can't say what you mean, you can NEVER mean what you say.

That said, I will amend my original comment in that I also believe that to provide "friendly advice", in order to be both friendly and GOOD advice, it should also have some degree of truth...I simply pointed out errors and/or misconceptions regarding your comments for the benefit of those less experienced.


Quote:
-you can point at all the statistics you like but I know for a fact that if I were to take my American Special Strat and a 2nd hand Mexican made Road worn strat (valued more new) both into a pawn shop I will get more money for the MIA...all the statistics in the world won't change that "myth".


Economics 101...

Since you seem to be confused about the concept of resale value (even though you keep trying to give advice on this), let's make this simple..something that cost's $100 originally is generally going to fetch a higher resale price than something that cost $10 (with other things being equal). This in no way reflects how well either product maintains a resale value, it simply means that the first item was originally more expensive than the second item was and as such, will usually re-sell for a higher dollar amount. The significance here is the use of"price" and "value". If item A, which originally sold for $100 has a typical resale price of $50 and item B which sold originally for $10 has a typical resale price of $5, while item A has a higher price, the resale value is THE SAME...both items have held 50% of their original value.

I'm sorry that facts apparently disturb you, however when you properly base a resale value against the original retail price, you'll see that MIM and MIA are quite similar...again right around a 40% depreciation either way. Your comment stated "a proper American made Fender will always hold it's re-sale value much better than a MIM or MIJ"...all I did was point out that this is wrong. I honestly do know if you're simply ignorant about such things or if you're just a compulsive lair (not that I particularly care)...I simply corrected your comment for the benefit of others.

Quote:
Anyway, I just wondered to myself "why am I even bothering to justify my comments to this opinionated moron?" I mean, I'm only giving friendly advice...not typing a legal document for F's sake. If you get your kicks out of knit-picking other people's posts (like a few people I've noticed seem to around these forums) you must either be really bored or really stupid.


I find it mildly interesting that you can't seem to take corrections to your comments or justify your position in some way without resorting to rather childish name calling. Nice. Regardless, since you're obviously so easily offended by people "knit-picking" your posts, perhaps you should simply take the time to make sure that what you post is actually accurate, otherwise when you make erroneous comments, you should EXPECT others to correct them.

While you've accused me of being opinionated and suggested that my comments are "BS", perhaps you should learn the difference between an opinion and a fact, then re-read your own comments.

Quote:
Either way, I don't want to read your biblically long BS posts anymore, I know that for sure!


Sorry, but I'm not responsible for your limited attention span (or your seemingly apparent lack of literacy).


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Post subject: Re: which Strat to choose?
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:13 am
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lomitus wrote:
...Economics 101...


Comprehension 101:

You missed the point, which was that the MIM Strat cost more new than the Am Spcl Strat, yet the Am Spcl Strat would likely fetch a better price at the pawn shop. Meaning that the MIA held more of its value. :wink:

Hypothetical or not, the point remains.

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Post subject: Re: which Strat to choose?
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:10 am
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@ lotimus...

Chillax Dude !!

We're all fellow travelers here... :wink:

cheers!

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'11 FSR Am. Vtg. Ltd. Ed. CAR '57 Stratocaster (SN# LE02639)
'14 American Deluxe Ash Stratocaster
'12 Telebration Empress Telecaster
'99 Deluxe Nashville Telecaster
'12 FSR Telecaster HH
'10 Heritage H-535
'99 Martin DC-1E
'13 Lanikai Tenor Ukulele


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Post subject: Re: which Strat to choose?
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:29 am
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lomitus wrote:
If item A, which originally sold for $100 has a typical resale price of $50 and item B which sold originally for $10 has a typical resale price of $5, while item A has a higher price, the resale value is THE SAME...both items have held 50% of their original value.

On your resale value comparison, $50 is more than $5, so the resale value is not the same. The resale value percentage or the resale value ratio is...
(Another way to compare this, of course, is that one has lost $50 or $5...)

Of course, I'm putting out fire with gasoline, because:
lomitus wrote:
when you make erroneous comments, you should EXPECT others to correct them
:mrgreen:

On the OP's situation, I'd agree with Lightnin MN: with limited cash to spend (and taking into account the resale value drop) choose a good used guitar.


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