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Post subject: Re: Why do the David Gilmour Strat's cost so much??
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:20 am
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lomitus wrote:
Now if you're more interested in "sound", things here get a bit more complicated.......

You can visit http://www.gilmourish.com and http://www.thetonefromheaven.com. :idea: These are two sources we've sent our Gilmour tonequestors to in the past. No stranger to these is lomitus I'm sure. There you'll find the ingredients for cake. Now as to what's involved in the baking thereof, now THAT's a horse of a different colour. 8) When I lived on Long Island, there was a tribute band based in my town of Commack which I heard perform many times at the Dix Hills Performing Arts Center, based at Five Towns College. They are known as Project Floyd. They are most easily accessed if you Google them by name. They are routed through a tribute band webside. If memory serves, their lead guitarist used a sunburst HSS Stratocaster through a well crafted signal chain. That band has Pink Floyd dimed, as you will come to learn. 8)

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Post subject: Re: Why do the David Gilmour Strat's cost so much??
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:26 pm
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Great write up on Gilmours guitars in February Guitar magazine. Apparently the black one had been loaned to Rock Cafe and was subsequently returned damaged, missing it's knobs and without its original case. It's a pretty sad looking guitar viewed up close.

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Post subject: Re: Why do the David Gilmour Strat's cost so much??
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:04 pm
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John Sims wrote:
Great write up on Gilmours guitars in February Guitar magazine. Apparently the black one had been loaned to Rock Cafe and was subsequently returned damaged, missing it's knobs and without its original case. It's a pretty sad looking guitar viewed up close.

See my lengthy post on pg.1 :?: I tend to get a tad long in the word. :oops:

Doc :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Why do the David Gilmour Strat's cost so much??
Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:59 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
lomitus wrote:
Now if you're more interested in "sound", things here get a bit more complicated.......

When I lived on Long Island, there was a tribute band based in my town of Commack which I heard perform many times at the Dix Hills Performing Arts Center, based at Five Towns College. They are known as Project Floyd. They are most easily accessed if you Google them by name. They are routed through a tribute band webside. If memory serves, their lead guitarist used a sunburst HSS Stratocaster through a well crafted signal chain. That band has Pink Floyd dimed, as you will come to learn. 8)


Hey Doc...interesting anecdote here...
Back around '89 when my wife and I were first dating, at the time I met her, she was also dating the drummer from a Pink Floyd tribute band - can't remember the band name any more, but I remember my wife referred to the drummer as "the lip-less wonder", LOL! Anyways, I think the lead guitar player actually used a semihollow...something akin to an ES-335 as I recall, but as you say, had a "well crafted signal chain"....this guy's leads were just spot on and these guys really did sound like Pink Floyd...at least the recordings.

The problem was, that was it...they had a really great sound, but they played EVERY tune just like the album (CD) and they had no sense of showmanship at all...they just stood there and played. It was like having Dark Side of the Moon cranked up in the bar with a bunch of yo-yo's on stage just standing there lip-syncing to the music. I still remember thinking that if I had of wanted to listen to a Pink Floyd CD, I could have stayed at home and the drinks would have been A LOT cheaper. We've had some good tribute bands here in the Cleveland area...Zoso put on a really great Zep show back in the early 90's and for a while, Moonlight Drive...Doors tribute band...was damn near legendary around here. That Floyd group however....wow....talk about boring! LOL!

I guess the best Floyd show I ever saw was...well...Pink Floyd. I got to see them 3 times here in Cleveland and the Pulse tour STILL sends shivers up my spine. Now THAT was a show :-)


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Post subject: Re: Why do the David Gilmour Strat's cost so much??
Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:19 am
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lomitus wrote:
The problem was, that was it...they had a really great sound, but they played EVERY tune just like the album (CD) and they had no sense of showmanship at all...they just stood there and played.

Hate to hijack this thread, however...........My criticism of contemporary audiences for years...and that's almost a half century now, is that their expectation of live music is a note for note articulation of the original...no interpretation whatsoever. 'Be the first guy on the block to learn the guitar solo' has been a game ever since my 'teens. That's nearly 60 years back. This requirement moves the live musician as well as the gear industry to seek and provide the tools to achieve that goal. I expect that the same was true of the 'big band' era as well. How do you improvise on Glen Miller's arrangements??? That's why I prefer blues. It gives you some free form. Playing Chuck Berry's stuff, for example, you can either work around the solos with the 'feel', or do 'em note for note. Other than the purists like you and I, who's going to know. But 'Comfortably Numb', now that's something different. But....not even David plays that solo exactly the same, note for note every time. But that's Dave's perogative. Not that of a cover band. He's got a master form which he follows, but I've been able to hear where he departs from than. A short comment about 'Pulse'. You could have knocked me over with a feather when I learned that Tim Renwick plays the second guitar solo on 'The Wall'. I thought it was Dave playing. That guy IMHO is probably one of the most under-celebrated guitarists on the planet. Much like Phil Palmer. There's video of Renwick on YouTube working with Clapton on a tour in Boston during the mid-70's . They're doing 'Cocaine' and Eric gives it to him and Renwick runs away with it. In Clapton's autobiography he remarked that he had dropped the idea of a second guitar player in his band because he was tired of hearing his solos played back at him. I'm certain it was Renwick's work he was referring to.

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Post subject: Re: Why do the David Gilmour Strat's cost so much??
Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:19 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
lomitus wrote:
The problem was, that was it...they had a really great sound, but they played EVERY tune just like the album (CD) and they had no sense of showmanship at all...they just stood there and played.

Hate to hijack this thread, however...........My criticism of contemporary audiences for years...and that's almost a half century now, is that their expectation of live music is a note for note articulation of the original...no interpretation whatsoever. 'Be the first guy on the block to learn the guitar solo' has been a game ever since my 'teens. That's nearly 60 years back. This requirement moves the live musician as well as the gear industry to seek and provide the tools to achieve that goal. I expect that the same was true of the 'big band' era as well. How do you improvise on Glen Miller's arrangements??? That's why I prefer blues. It gives you some free form. Playing Chuck Berry's stuff, for example, you can either work around the solos with the 'feel', or do 'em note for note. Other than the purists like you and I, who's going to know. But 'Comfortably Numb', now that's something different. But....not even David plays that solo exactly the same, note for note every time. But that's Dave's perogative. Not that of a cover band. He's got a master form which he follows, but I've been able to hear where he departs from than. A short comment about 'Pulse'. You could have knocked me over with a feather when I learned that Tim Renwick plays the second guitar solo on 'The Wall'. I thought it was Dave playing. That guy IMHO is probably one of the most under-celebrated guitarists on the planet. Much like Phil Palmer. There's video of Renwick on YouTube working with Clapton on a tour in Boston during the mid-70's . They're doing 'Cocaine' and Eric gives it to him and Renwick runs away with it. In Clapton's autobiography he remarked that he had dropped the idea of a second guitar player in his band because he was tired of hearing his solos played back at him. I'm certain it was Renwick's work he was referring to.



Hi Doc, your so right the spontaneous combustion that was the late 60s and 70s main staple is a fleeting art. So many great bands that gave us 6-8 min guitar solos are fading away. The Allman Brothers, Zeppelin, Floyd, Skynyrd, Hendrix, Clapton, Vaughan, so many that no one steps up to replace. Slash is one of the few artists that still does it in a 70s genre. Blackberry Smoke is the new Allman Brothers but there just is so few new. We have to sit around and wait for remaster reissue CDs and DVDs. Steve Miller and Buddy guy are coming to town and I think I may go. I always loved Steve's music.

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Post subject: Re: Why do the David Gilmour Strat's cost so much??
Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:13 am
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[quote="donnycraven] This 'ol man' and those of my ilk on the Forums have literally lived the evolution of rock music from its morphing out of blues, R&B [which, by the way, is the moniker my cousin Jerry Wexler coined] and country>rock-a-billy to what Alan Freed first referred to as 'rock and roll'. As we moved into the late 60's with FM taking over Top Forty many of the AM stations transitioned to all news-talk radio formats, the consumer and the music started to become more eclectic. The music was speaking to the 'times' and became more listening music rather than dance. It's remains that way today where many bands are concerned.The guitar heroes began their reign, and long guitar solos evolved. Disco and hiphop have filled the void for the dance crowd which Doo Wop once occupied. [/quote]

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Post subject: Re: Why do the David Gilmour Strat's cost so much??
Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:14 am
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This 'ol man' and those of my ilk on the Forums have literally lived the evolution of rock music from its morphing out of blues, R&B [which, by the way, is the moniker my cousin Jerry Wexler coined] and country>rock-a-billy to what Alan Freed first referred to as 'rock and roll'. As we moved into the late 60's with FM taking over Top Forty many of the AM stations transitioned to all news-talk radio formats, the consumer and the music started to become more eclectic. The music was speaking to the 'times' and became more listening music rather than dance. It's remains that way today where many bands are concerned.The guitar heroes began their reign, and long guitar solos evolved. Disco and hiphop have filled the void for the dance crowd which Doo Wop once occupied.

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Post subject: Re: Why do the David Gilmour Strat's cost so much??
Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:54 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
Hate to hijack this thread, however...........My criticism of contemporary audiences for years...and that's almost a half century now, is that their expectation of live music is a note for note articulation of the original...no interpretation whatsoever.


No offence Doc, but I have to debate this. To a large degree I agree with you regarding the Glenn Miller analogy and from that standpoint, it's much like classical...it's kind of hard to put an interpretive spin on Beethoven and Mozart. In the same breath however, I also have to say that it can be done...after all, isn't that the purpose of a conductor or musical director? Don't they "interpret" the music? That aside, I've actually seen local big bands around my area who will take a tune like Miller's "In The Mood" and just rock with it...it's a pretty sweet thing to see.

As far as newer music goes, I think of it like this; what if Hendrix had of played "All Along the Watchtower" just like Bob Dylan did? Would anyone even remember that version of the tune? Same goes for Manfred Mann's cover of Springsteen's "Blinded By the Light". As far as recordings go, I think the most notable covers are those that tend to go well beyond what the original artist created...and I tend to think the same way of live music as well.

As far as tribute bands go, yea...I guess they should try and sound like the original band (although admittedly, I'm not that fond of tribute bands to begin with). For a general cover band however, I really feel that interpretation is an important part of doing covers. As a cover musician, I tend to think of it like this; if a given tune has something "signature" about it...that opening riff to Funkadelic's Maggot Brain or the intro to Floyd's Wish You Were here for instance, then I include it. If something is signature or iconic, I do try to pay homage to it. That said, I don't trying to play the WHOLE song note for note...never have....and to be perfectly honest, most of the material I've ever done, never gets played exactly the same way twice. I try to get just enough of signature and tone so as the audience can identify with the tune, but then I do very much try to make the song "my own". This is very much my own personal opinion here, but as a guitar player I'd much rather be remembered as "Jim Walczak" rather than "that guy who plays just like Stevie Ray Vaughn" (or Clapton, Gilmore, etc).

I would also add that I do think the "style" and/or technique is more important than a note for note interpretation. Using Comfortably Numb as an example, yea...I've done this tune on stage a few times and no, I don't play it note for note. I do however have Gilmore's style down pretty well and I can include enough notes that honestly...most people really just don't know the difference.

I think the point I'm trying to make here is that in my opinion, in terms of the audience perspective the idea that someone HAS to play a given tune note for note is really something of an illusion. Think about it - even with looooong established standards (ala Johnny B. Goode for example), how many people in that audience really know every last word of the lyrics, let alone every note of a guitar solo? In a room of 100 people, what...3 or 4 people MIGHT know all the words to the tune? Most will remember a chorus, but when it comes to a verse most people will just "mumble inarticulate sounds". Come on...how many people can even sing at karaoke night without looking at the words on the screen? LOL!

As a cover musician I also have to add that for an average gig, we usually do around 40(ish) songs...and both of the bands I'm currently in do a pretty wide range of material. Trying to play and sound just like The Beatles, Chuck Berry, John Melloncamp, Bob Segar, Marshall Tucker, Pink Floyd, The Band, ZZ Top, Eric Clapton, CCR, Janis Joplin, Lynard Skynard, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Fleetwood Mac...dude...it's impossible. There's just no way that one band can sound like THAT many different performers, let alone play EVERYTHING note for note...so why try?

Isn't it better for a band...cover or otherwise...to simply have their own sound?

Likewise, regarding my earlier comment, I do very much think there's something to be said for "showmanship", particularly regarding a live audience. This is just my own experience speaking here, but I think that most people who go to see a live band want to be "entertained"...that's a big part of seeing a "live" band. As such, I think that generally speaking an audience tends to respond more to someone who goes beyond just playing well. Ok...I'll admit that I'm a bit of a ham...but yea, the audience really seems to get off on it when I do little gimmick's (stage antics) like putting the guitar behind my head or even just walking out onto the dance floor while I'm playing (assuming there's people dancing). I also think that spontaneity is part of what brings people back to see the next show..if people know they can expect something fresh, chances are they'll be back. If I were doing the "lounge band thing" or something like a coffee house gig, that tends to be different...you're there for ambiance more than anything, but for an average bar gig...yea...I think people enjoy a degree of showmanship and a good "performance".

I can't speak to other parts of the country (or planet), but here in Cleveland an average audience expects more than someone who just stands there and plays another person's music note for note.

Anyways, I've rambled enough here...time to go do something more productive.....


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Post subject: Re: Why do the David Gilmour Strat's cost so much??
Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:19 am
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lomitus wrote:
ZZDoc wrote:
.....As far as tribute bands go, yea...I guess they should try and sound like the original band (although admittedly, I'm not that fond of tribute bands to begin with). For a general cover band however, I really feel that interpretation is an important part of doing covers. ....


Spot on...in summary.

And THAT is why Gilmour Strats cost so much ....LOL Sorry, I am being facetious. :oops:

As a maker of model kits many years ago I think it is great that people desire recreations of notable anythings. In this case it is a guitar.

What is nice of the Fender offerings is you can decide if you just want a reproduction as far as the acoustic/electronic properties are concerned or want to go the whole hog in including the aesthetics.

Either way these are low volume non production run guitars (even if they use some/many production run components) with more (or even more in the relic version) hands on attention in assembly as a result.

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Post subject: Re: Why do the David Gilmour Strat's cost so much??
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:37 am
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Apparently, they don't "cost so much" any more, as they no longer seem to be listed in the current product line ... at least I cant find them on the web page. :-(

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Post subject: Re: Why do the David Gilmour Strat's cost so much??
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:18 am
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John Sims wrote:
Apparently, they don't "cost so much" any more, as they no longer seem to be listed in the current product line ... at least I cant find them on the web page. :-(

You'll find it in the 'Artist Series' section of the Custom Shop's website. :D

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Post subject: Re: Why do the David Gilmour Strat's cost so much??
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:16 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
John Sims wrote:
Apparently, they don't "cost so much" any more, as they no longer seem to be listed in the current product line ... at least I cant find them on the web page. :-(

You'll find it in the 'Artist Series' section of the Custom Shop's website. :D


Ah ha! Indeed so, I missed that. The Fender product pages are something of a maze, I can't see how that is to their advantage.

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Post subject: Re: Why do the David Gilmour Strat's cost so much??
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:34 am
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[quote="John Sims} Ah ha! Indeed so, I missed that. The Fender product pages are something of a maze, I can't see how that is to their advantage.[/quote]
I commented on Brad's Facebook page that the Shop needs a direct and visible link. Send him your thoughts. :idea:

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