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Post subject: Re: Should i buy a relic?help
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:52 pm
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John Sims wrote:
BMW-KTM wrote:
I don't see those as being equal. When I play covers I'm not trying to appear to be the actual original artist. I'm not trying to look and sound just like Foreigner just because I play Hot Blooded or Double Vision. Even tribute bands who do exactly that still advertise well in advance of their shows that they are a tribute band. Nobody goes there and wonders if it's the actual band or not. As a patron at a gig there is nothing to distinguish a relic from a real vintage guitar unless the owner lets you examine it in your own hands and flip it over and see the Corona neck plate or the modern serial number. If you want to make that comparison then let's see all relic guitars have the work "Relic" in big bold letters inlayed into the fretboard.


But you are assuming they want you to think their relic is old and deceive you in doing so. Do people who hang a print of the Monna Lisa ( or any print) on their wall do so to make people think it is the original? Of course not, they just like the original and it's their way of appreciating it.

Why does it make any difference what someone's guitar looks like?


Have fun trying to reason with some members here who seem to have such an irrational disdain for relics, and such an irrational concern over what other people prefer their OWN guitars to look like, that it is well beyond obsession and more aptly into approaching insanity. Why they have such disdain has not been explained to me.

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Last edited by ebaysux on Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Should i buy a relic?help
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:02 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
Well, one thing is certain. I, for one, will no longer remain silent when someone implies those who don't like relics and voice their opinions are inherently insecure, insulting or don't have a clue. I know there are many others who feel exactly the same even if they don't post it. It doesn't matter who started what or who said what. The fact remains the pro-relic crowd is just as possessed of the insecure, insulting and clueless and the anti-relic crowd. From this moment on there will be no more claiming to be the side that takes the high road. Not without a whole boatload of browbeating.


I have posted time and time and time and time and time again.... that I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with anyone who does not like relics nor do I have any problem with those who express that they do not like relics. What I do have a problem with is those who are resorting to personally insulting the character, integrity, personal tastes, livelihood, work, passion, intelligence etc etc of those who simply like something others do not... and using this forum as a vehicle to do so. And this is EXACTLY what has been going down and the ONLY reason I am so outspoken about it since regardless of these trolls I will still build relics as per my customers demand, and so will Fender.

Why should other members of this Fender forum have to defend the reasons they like an artist series or an old looking guitar etc etc? What the $@!& does it matter to anyone else? Use your money to buy what you want and leave your guitar stock or customize it to your tastes.... and if anyone personally insults you for that I would jump right on their backs as well for doing so.... even if you painted your guitar green with purple dots and dropped it out of an airplane.

PLEASE try to read all the comments again and if you do not understand where I am coming from and how CLEARLY I have explained this time and time and time and time and time again. let me know and I will type it again in all caps. bold, and more slowly. Or I can just forward copies of the attacks to the forum administrators who seemingly do not give a $@!&...... and probably because regardless of all the trolling and bullying going on in these forums, are still making a killing off relics...ironically? You think? I would love to get $4,000 for a relic job...but I do not include a Fender C.S. COA, a boatload of case candy or a nice tweed reissue case.

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Post subject: Re: Should i buy a relic?help
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:47 pm
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stratmangler wrote:
In answer to the question in the thread title, no!

If you want a guitar that's looks distressed buy a new one with a nitro finish, then play it like you stole it, play it whenever you can, and do it every day.
Spend every possible waking moment playing it.
Play it but don't abuse it and throw it around.
Treat it with respect, but play it like you mean it!
The guitar will show the signs of your actions soon enough, and the signs it will show are because you put the time in; your playing will make it so.

Your playing will improve as a result, and your guitar will become a part of you and you it.
And it won't be fake like all the "relic" guitars out there.

And that's what 99% of the "relic" guitars out there look like - fake!

And I don't think I insulted anybody in posting my opinion, even though I have been insulted in the course of this thread.


1) Please explain how you were insulted.

2) Granted you might be able to buy a brand new Strat with a nitro finish, why is it such an issue if it is one that is already worn looking? Why would Fender offer the options of road worn and closet classics and light relics and heavy relics etc etc etc if there were not a demand? Do you consider those guitars Fender sells as "fakes". Are you accusing Fender of defrauding their customers?

3) What is to prevent anyone from playing a guitar with a pre-worn finish any less then one with a new finish? Shouldn't the primary thing that really matters be the owner of the guitar like/love and enjoy their purchases?

4) What makes a relic any more "fake" or any less "real" then any other guitar? Does it change the sound or the fact that it is still a guitar that the owner simply likes the look of a worn finish or they do not want to be so concerned if it gets chipped or scratched which is bound to happen if you actually gig with it a lot? I mean if someone has a worn out sunburst do you really think if they were using it for a gig anyone would actually think it was Stevie Rays ax?

5) I agree you did not directly and personally insult anyone in this comment but you are being presumptuous if you really read into it. You make a direct assertion that 99% of relic guitars out there look fake. Is it that they look fake to "you", or is it that 99% of only the ones "you" have seen look fake? Get it?

To clarify.... regardless of the fact that 99% of the ones you have seen look fake, or so you claim.... maybe to others they love the look and to them they do not look "fake"? Or maybe they own the 1% that to "you" do not look fake? Can you even explain what "fake" means? Does it mean it looks like it was dropped by accident or on purpose? Or does it mean it looks like someone just took sandpaper and or a spray can to a poly finish? Please explain.

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Post subject: Re: Should i buy a relic?help
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:26 pm
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This is 6 pages we'll NEVER get back !!

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cheers!

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Post subject: Re: Should i buy a relic?help
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:27 pm
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Why don't you set the example? No one forced you to read 6 or any pages. Why are you even on a thread about relics if it does not interest you what others have to say about them? :roll:

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Post subject: Re: Should i buy a relic?help
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:21 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
Well, one thing is certain. I, for one, will no longer remain silent when someone implies those who don't like relics and voice their opinions are inherently insecure, insulting or don't have a clue...


Just to clarify, I wasn't referring to someone simply voicing their opinion about not liking relics. I was referring to those that hurl insults and demean those that do like relics. You should know that, and I'm sure that you can clearly see the difference. :wink:

In fact, this thread was decent for awhile, only one insult that was removed, then it got ugly as usual. The removed insult referred to a wrongly attributed quote by PT Barnum, which BTW was not said by PT, so what does that say about the one that posted it? And now I think that I do remember who it was that posted it.

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Post subject: Re: Should i buy a relic?help
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:43 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
BMW-KTM wrote:
Well, one thing is certain. I, for one, will no longer remain silent when someone implies those who don't like relics and voice their opinions are inherently insecure, insulting or don't have a clue...


Just to clarify, I wasn't referring to someone simply voicing their opinion about not liking relics. I was referring to those that hurl insults and demean those that do like relics. You should know that, and I'm sure that you can clearly see the difference. :wink:

In fact, this thread was decent for awhile, only one insult that was removed, then it got ugly as usual. The removed insult referred to a wrongly attributed quote by PT Barnum, which BTW was not said by PT, so what does that say about the one that posted it? And now I think that I do remember who it was that posted it.


I honestly wish these threads would not have to get so ugly. Almost every critical point I have attempted to make has been either misrepresented, or totally ignored, or taken out of context. The bottom line to me is it is irrelevant who dislikes relics or anything else for that matter. There is no reason we can not discuss the pros and cons of anything and not have to resort to degrading others and being condescending. The issue comes when an "opinion".... is actually a personal insult.

If you read through this thread you will notice what some are claiming is an "opinion", is actually a direct personal attack on other members. And then they wonder why I laid into them, or they just pretend that I was the aggressor or initiator. Yeah...really a freaking mystery there :lol: Not sure if this is willful ignorance or some kind of game, or if they really only comprehend the parts they cherry pick and everything else is a blur.

I do not understand how there are no mods on this forum to issue warnings to those provoking such negativity like this and personally insulting/attacking other members. Fender is supposed to be a reputable company. And they allow this vitriol to continue on their forums. I just do not get it. Is this forum only run by a few bullies that are not even employees of the company? Is that really what they want to represent them?

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Post subject: Re: Should i buy a relic?help
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:38 pm
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I'm sure that the mods will step in at some point, with a minimum of a nice reminder from Rob.

But, really, we don't help our case when we get caught up in the insult game, regardless of who started it. I have been trying more to just let it go, because it does no good to lower ourselves to being insulting.

Make a comment, let others comment and forget it. 8)

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Post subject: Re: Should i buy a relic?help
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:10 am
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I have found this thread enlightening and stimulating, and am greatful to all who have contributed as it has bought to the fore an aspect of relics to which I was previously totaly oblivious.

I am sure the original poster will find this thread valuable if they had also been unaware of the apparent stigma (from some circles) related to strapping on a relic in public.

I'm thinking I could change my sig to "After all of this time it might be OK to be seen playing a relic."

On a positive note, I hope, there are some great relic references in Gutarist magazine this month with pictures of Gilmores black Strat.

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Post subject: Re: Should i buy a relic?help
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:41 am
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There seems to be a stigma for those who don't like relics, too :wink:


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Post subject: Re: Should i buy a relic?help
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:05 am
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jmattis wrote:
There seems to be a stigma for those who don't like relics, too :wink:


Thank you for bringing this point up :)


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Post subject: Re: Should i buy a relic?help
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:57 am
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Once again, it isn't those that don't like relics, it is those that are insulting about it. No one here has once insulted someone just because they stated that they don't like relics. Saying that you are FOS about the above statement is not insulting you because of your dislike of relics. And you know it, but are being facetious. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Should i buy a relic?help
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:49 am
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I saw this thread had reached 6 pages & hoped something interesting was being discussed.

Nope, SOSDD :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Should i buy a relic?help
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:19 am
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A thought missing here, but in the back of my mind, is would you pay someone to "relic" a guitar? This is apparently what the upset person in this post does. The value of a new relic from Fender, or an actual relic is quite different than the product this person produces for his livelihood. However one wishes to spend his money purchasing their guitar is their concern, but that doesn't preclude ones right to express their civil opinion, and I believe that is the intent of forums. A lesson learned from these 6 pages is to develop a thicker skin. Your opening yourself up for criticism when you post. Your not standing on an alter and shouldn't expect conformity of thought, acceptance, or admiration and shouldn't be shocked if you don't achieve it, just let it go and get on with life.


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Post subject: Re: Should i buy a relic?help
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:59 am
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tvr1979 wrote:
The notion missing, but in the back of my mind, is would you pay someone to "relic" a guitar? This is apparently what the upset person in this post does. The value of a new relic from Fender, or an actual relic is quite different than the product this person produces for his livelihood. However one wishes to spend his money purchasing a guitar is their concern, but that doesn't preclude ones right to express their opinion, and I believe that is the intent of forums. A lesson learned from these 6 pages is to develop a thicker skin. Your opening yourself up for criticism when you post. Your not standing on an alter expecting conformity of thought, acceptance, or admiration and if you don't achieve it, let it go.

Sorry tvr1979, I haven't kept up, to whom are you speaking, me?

Anyway, I liked the bit about "develop a thicker skin", and "let it go"! :D

It's kind of fun, if you don't take it too seriously, to see the food fight mentality on a sure fire controversial subject like: To Relic or Not To Relic or Even Consider To Relic! :twisted:

How about"The Single Favorite/Greatest Strat player that you listen to/emulate the most because of his Incomparable TONE...", anyone? :lol:

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