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Post subject: Micro tilt question
Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:52 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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I have a '91 Strat Plus Dlx that has micro tilt adjust.
I've seen the demo's on how to adjust it and what it does.
However, I can't find anything that shows or explains how to test if it needs adjusting.

My saddle adjust screws are in pretty far, meaning they don't stick out to brother me.
So what do I look for to see if I need to adjust the micro tilt?
TIA.


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Post subject: Re: Micro tilt question
Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:11 pm
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Sounds to me like if if ain't broke don't fix it! If the set up is where you like it, then it is set where it needs to be.
:wink:
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Post subject: Re: Micro tilt question
Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:10 pm
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This shouldn't be adjusted too much, if at all. Adjustments for action should first begin with the truss rod, then check the nut slots and finally then saddle height.

Begin with this video and then watch the rest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHHepmTX3So

I've owned several guitars with the micro-tilt necks and have never once needed to move it.

The idea for the micro-tilt neck came from Leo Fender. Its purpose was to deal with improper neck pitch. Sometimes a neck might set wrong in the neck pocket and be pitched at a bad angle. The only way to really fix it would be to place a small shim in the pocket between the neck and body. Leo came up with a way to alter the pitch mechanically.

Unless there is something really wrong with the neck of the guitar, I wouldn't mess with it. If you do end up moving it, remember: small changes go a long way. Too much pitch and the strings will fret-out when the guitar is played.

Good luck!


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Post subject: Re: Micro tilt question
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:14 am
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In short, the Micro-Tilt™ does exactly the same things a shim in the body end of the neck pocket would do.

No need to adjust it, if the guitar is setup the way you like it. I'd guess most guitar owners never touch it.

But there's no need to avoid using it, either.
Some tilt the neck if the saddle screws stick up too much (instead of shorter screws).
Some want the string break angle steeper, either because of "saddles higher = more downforce = better sound" ideology
or just because there's a (buzz, intonation etc.) problem in the saddles and M-T™ use is the easiest fix.
(Probably it's most frequently used by people who are used to shimming the necks. And, funny that Fender doesn't use the M-T™ in models that would benefit the most from it - e.g. in Jags and Jazzmasters shimming is almost a basic setup job...)


Quote:
The need to adjust the pitch (raising the butt end of the neck in the pocket, thereby pitching the neck back) of the neck occurs in situations where the string height is high and the action adjustment is as low as the adjustment will allow.
(Strat SetUp Guide



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Post subject: Re: Micro tilt question
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:57 am
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jmattis wrote:
In short, the Micro-Tilt™ does exactly the same things a shim in the body end of the neck pocket would do.

No need to adjust it, if the guitar is setup the way you like it. I'd guess most guitar owners never touch it.

]



+1


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Post subject: Re: Micro tilt question
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:27 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Thanks for the posts.
Yes I already know the things mentioned and suggested.
I set up my own guitars and am very familiar with how to adjustment for proper set up.
Micro tilt I've never touched, nor do I know why I would.

My question is about why one would need to adjust the micro tilt, what condition would necessitate a tilt adjustment?
Other than the obvious one where the saddle screws are sticking up too high and irritating your hand, what condition exists to require a tilt adjustment?

Yes, if it ain't broke don't break it. :)
And that's why I haven't touched it.
Still, can anyone answer the question?


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Post subject: Re: Micro tilt question
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:32 am
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jmattis wrote:
In short, the Micro-Tilt™ does exactly the same things a shim in the body end of the neck pocket would do.

No need to adjust it, if the guitar is setup the way you like it. I'd guess most guitar owners never touch it.

But there's no need to avoid using it, either.
Some tilt the neck if the saddle screws stick up too much (instead of shorter screws).
Some want the string break angle steeper, either because of "saddles higher = more downforce = better sound" ideology
or just because there's a (buzz, intonation etc.) problem in the saddles and M-T™ use is the easiest fix.
(Probably it's most frequently used by people who are used to shimming the necks. And, funny that Fender doesn't use the M-T™ in models that would benefit the most from it - e.g. in Jags and Jazzmasters shimming is almost a basic setup job...)


Quote:
The need to adjust the pitch (raising the butt end of the neck in the pocket, thereby pitching the neck back) of the neck occurs in situations where the string height is high and the action adjustment is as low as the adjustment will allow.
(Strat SetUp Guide



I've seen that video, but it doesn't explain at all what MT adjusts or corrects, other than to say that it changes the neck angle relative to the body.
Ok. So is there is spec regarding the neck angle to the body?
If so, how is that measured?

What intonation problem can be fixed by the MT that can't be fixed the regular way?

TIA.


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Post subject: Re: Micro tilt question
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:47 am
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If you can adjust your saddles like you want , you don't need to play with micro tilt .

Best in theory is the neck parallel to the body .

If saddles are at their lowest adjustment and strings action is too high , you need to use micro tilt .

Turn micro tilt screw clockwise , this push on the neck ( at the poket ) and change neck angle .

String action will be lower .


Before this adjustment ; you need to slacken neck plate screws .

I hope this help


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Post subject: Re: Micro tilt question
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:23 am
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Rock Star
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The Strats and Teles come with just about zero degrees neck angle, but I don't see why it would be "best in theory". The stringed instrument building tradition has most likely tried every possible neck angle, and came up with violins, guitars and such - just about every old school instrument has some angle.

Anyway, as has been said: you don't have to use the Micro-Tilt™ or shim a neck if you don't want to.
It is of course a dinosaur; lingering from days before this CNC accuracy in neck/body fitting - Fender even used to have shims as spare parts in those days.

For me, sometimes changing the neck angle is the easiest way, giving best (and fully reversible) results.
(Like, try to make a Jaguar play well with a .009 set & low action, without changing parts or shimming the neck...)


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Post subject: Re: Micro tilt question
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:34 am
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I mean it is the "best " but I would say when neck fit tight on the body pocket this best connection between neck and body .

With shim or micro tilt in use , neck won't touch the body everywhere .

For what I read often it is the best way to build guitar ; tight fit .


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Post subject: Re: Micro tilt question
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:01 am
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stratele52 wrote:
I mean it is the "best " but I would say when neck fit tight on the body pocket this best connection between neck and body .

With shim or micro tilt in use , neck won't touch the body everywhere .

For what I readoften it is the best way to build guitar ; tight fit .


Hi there,
Using a shim or the micro-tilt will cause the neck heel to reduce some contact area with the body pocket in the flat area. Some argue this will reduce vibration transfer affecting overall tone of the guitar.
A question for you experts: What about the contact area neck/body in the curved part of them? With micro tilt engaged these surfaces will not be parallel anymore so the contact area eventually become a line. Do you think this is also a negative effect?

FWIW I just experienced the removal of a shim in one of my guitars, the feeling I have is that everything play better and sound better. I might be blinded....


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Post subject: Re: Micro tilt question
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:32 am
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st52 wrote:
With shim or micro tilt in use , neck won't touch the body everywhere

OK, I get what you meant, and that's of course true.
And the wizard master luthiers (e.g. Erlewine) recommend using a full (the whole neck pocket sized), wedge shaped (thinner on the other end) shim, instead of a small one or microtilting.
Still, a lot (really, a lot) of guitars have been shimmed with just about anything (from matchbox/credit card/cardboard pieces to folded aluminum foil/post-its to picks...) without major problems. And the original shims by Fender in the sixties were small... (They, of course, trusted a lot on their guitars; remember that pic about a guy standing on a Tele neck?)

gman84 wrote:
What about the contact area neck/body in the curved part of them?

This one I didn't understand - do you mean the curved Strat (etc.) neck end touching the neck heel end in the body?


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Post subject: Re: Micro tilt question
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:24 am
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jmattis wrote:
[

gman84 wrote:
What about the contact area neck/body in the curved part of them?

This one I didn't understand - do you mean the curved Strat (etc.) neck end touching the neck heel end in the body?



I don't understand too , I though is my poor english , look it is not :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Micro tilt question
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:28 am
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jmattis wrote:
st52 wrote:
With shim or micro tilt in use , neck won't touch the body everywhere

OK, I get what you meant, and that's of course true.
And the wizard master luthiers (e.g. Erlewine) recommend using a full (the whole neck pocket sized), wedge shaped (thinner on the other end) shim, instead of a small one or microtilting.
Still, a lot (really, a lot) of guitars have been shimmed with just about anything (from matchbox/credit card/cardboard pieces to folded aluminum foil/post-its to picks...) without major problems. And the original shims by Fender in the sixties were small... (They, of course, trusted a lot on their guitars; remember that pic about a guy standing on a Tele neck?)

?


For Fender in the old days with no CMC , hand made guitar, the use of shim is often a must .

The guy standing on a Tele neck is just a proof that a four screw necks are solid , nothing to do with shim or no shim for tone quality or sustain .


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Post subject: Re: Micro tilt question
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:45 am
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Nope, he's standing on the neck only, it's not attached to a guitar body.
My remark was to emphasize that a neck would be OK with just a partial shim - in Fender's own opinion. There was nothing to stop them from making a full neck pocket sized shim...
Hugh Garriott & Tele Neck

Oh, a sort-of-an-answer to this:
Quote:
What intonation problem can be fixed by the MT that can't be fixed the regular way?

"Miscellaneous" :wink:
Same answer applies to saddle buzzes, strings popping out of their grooves, playability, tone issues - shim/MT™ are just one possible solution for those weird/extraordinary problems.


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