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Post subject: strat w/lace sensors technical question
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:53 pm
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Hi all, I have a 1997 Eric Clapton signature model strat with gold lace sensors and TBX tone control and I am interested in buying a fuzz pedal but the pedal manual says that it needs a guitar with passive pickups, and to my understanding is because guitars with passive pickups have a higher impedance output and that's required for some fuzz pedals to work properly...my guitar I think have active pickups besides that is the TBX tone control that requires a 9v battery and I truly want to buy that fuzz pedal :shock: ... I cannot find any specs, what is the output impedance of my guitar???

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Post subject: Re: strat w/lace sensors technical question
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:37 pm
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I have an EC Strat with the Lace Sensors and my "Fuzz" pedal works just fine with it. Don't over think it. Besides when I buy pedals, I bring my guitar with me to make sure I like the tone with MY guitar. Yes the Laces are passive but they are acoustic sensors unlike other pickups but they work the same essentially. Go try that guitar with a bunch of different Fuzz pedals because sometimes the pedal you like, doesn't sound the same with your guitar.

Might I suggest you get the book "The Fender Stratocaster" by A.R. Duchossoir, it has all the specs for these pickups in it and good info about the EC Stratocaster.

T2

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Post subject: Re: strat w/lace sensors technical question
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:53 pm
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You're safe man, go get the fuzz. What is it??
A traditionalist like Clapton wouldn't mess with his impedance interactions with gear...nah

Gold Lace are not active pickups. I run Lace Golds and other colours with no battery.
Lace don't make any active pickups I'm aware of.
The Lace are not powered by your TBX battery. The battery props up the tone circuit.

Give it a shot, might sound even better with the TBX thru the fuzz thang.

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Post subject: Re: strat w/lace sensors technical question
Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 11:56 am
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a fuzzhugger ab-synth :D


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Post subject: Re: strat w/lace sensors technical question
Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:31 pm
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Johnny Soniq wrote:
You're safe man, go get the fuzz. What is it??
A traditionalist like Clapton wouldn't mess with his impedance interactions with gear...nah

Gold Lace are not active pickups. I run Lace Golds and other colours with no battery.
Lace don't make any active pickups I'm aware of.
The Lace are not powered by your TBX battery. The battery props up the tone circuit.

Give it a shot, might sound even better with the TBX thru the fuzz thang.


This^ Gold Lace pups are passive.

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Post subject: Re: strat w/lace sensors technical question
Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:58 pm
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I think that battery is for the mid boost circuit.

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Post subject: Re: strat w/lace sensors technical question
Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 7:09 pm
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Lace pickups in and of themselves are not active. But as soon as you add the mid-boost they become active, such as on the EC Strat. The fuzz will work fine except if you play louder and crank the boost up and use the fuzz, then you might get some squealing.

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Post subject: Re: strat w/lace sensors technical question
Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:35 pm
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rjake wrote:
I think that battery is for the mid boost circuit.


+1


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Post subject: Re: strat w/lace sensors technical question
Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:42 pm
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Xhefri wrote:
Lace pickups in and of themselves are not active. But as soon as you add the mid-boost they become active, such as on the EC Strat. The fuzz will work fine except if you play louder and crank the boost up and use the fuzz, then you might get some squealing.


The Laces remain passive even when you add the Elite circuit. Only that circuit is active and the battery powers it thyself, not the pickups. Active pickups incorporate electronic circuitry to modify the signal.

An active pickup is powered by a separate battery stored on the guitar enabling higher output and overall balanced frequency. Many artists who are looking for a consistent sound such as in metal music use active pickups to achieve a powerful and consistent tone without compromising quality. Players like Kirk Hammett and Kerry King use active electronics which enable them to push their amps near their limits and still retain a tight and focused clarity in their sound.


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Post subject: Re: strat w/lace sensors technical question
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:36 pm
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I guess technically you are right Chromeface as you can get active pickups that are wounded with heavier wire and have a micro pre-amp built into them. They require a 9-volt battery. But even companies like EMG and Seymour Duncan refer to Active Systems (ones that require a 9-volt battery to operate with expanders and boosts) as having "active pickups" - simply meaning the circuitry requires a battery to drive. So there is some confusion on what is what. But back to the question at hand, some "active systems" do react oddly to pedals. I have a Gibson RD Custom powered by Moog electronics and it does not even like my BOSS ME50 pedal board and makes odd sounds, like some kind of interference is coming through the pickups. Like if i turned the tone control just right I pickup short wave radio signals! :lol: My EC Strat loves my ME50 but will feedback and squeal if I turn the distortion up too high and the boost on full blast.

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Post subject: Re: strat w/lace sensors technical question
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:46 pm
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Interesting. So if you took the battery out of an EC strat would it still work? Without the boost working obviously! :lol:


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Post subject: Re: strat w/lace sensors technical question
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:53 pm
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GorgonIsBack wrote:
Interesting. So if you took the battery out of an EC strat would it still work? Without the boost working obviously! :lol:

Good question. I always keep a fresh battery in my EC Strat so I do not know what happen when you disconnect it. I need to go try it. But my 76 Gibson RD Custom will not work without a battery and when the battery is low it sounds flakey.... :? But if the EC Strat does not work without a battery, then my point is made about "active systems" = "active pickups"! :lol:

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Post subject: Re: strat w/lace sensors technical question
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:07 am
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Xhefri wrote:
But if the EC Strat does not work without a battery, then my point is made about "active systems" = "active pickups"! :lol:

No battie, no shirtee. There's no signal with a dead battery....and....I have found that one of the indicators that the battery needs replacement is that the boost circuit's gain drops off instead of increasing .

In line with Xhefri's itteration, the Clapton, or, as our illustrious colleague from the land of Plato, prefers to refer to as , the Elite circuitry, is deemed 'active'. The reference is not to the pickups as being 'active', but rather that the circuitry was designed to boost the signal from the pickups before it left the guitar... i.e. not a passive signal out.

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Post subject: Re: strat w/lace sensors technical question
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:25 pm
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Interestingly I've heard recordings of some EMG equipped guitars that will still output a signal even if the battery is removed.
It's a very weak signal but it's there.
Seems the TBX system won't.

As to whether the TBX is active or passive, seems it is an "active" pup setup.
It uses pups with magnets wound by wire, just like any passive pup.
Then that signal runs into the powered EQ section and then output.

An EMG type pup also uses pups made with wire wrapped magnets, but then the signal is run to a pre amp to boost the signal, and then also into an active EQ like the TBX.
The EMG pre map is built right into the pup, and the Lace sensors do not have this.
EMG pups use smaller magnets and thus have a lower signal strength, which is why there is a pre amp built into the actual pup, to boost the signal.

The difference is that an active pup like an EMG has a low signal level output from the pup and thus requires a powered pre amp to boost it, whereas the TBX may be using the full signal output of the Lace pups that then feeds the active EQ.
So maybe just a pre amp or no pre amp difference.
The EMG pup is also fully shielded so it's quieter too.

Another difference between an active EMG type system and a passive system is that the active EMG doesn't use ground the way a passive system does. You don't ground the EMG pup to the guitar as with passive pups. That's why EMG guitars are quieter as they aren't affected by things like buzzing dimmers or florescent lights.
Perhaps the reason why some pedals don't like active systems is due to the ground wiring as well as the lower impedance output. But from what I've read most pedals work just fine with active pups.
The one pedal that seems to not play well is the Fuzz Face.

EMG system can plug directly into a mixing board or recorder without a direct box.
Can the TBX do the same?


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