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Post subject: Re: Good amp to match a strat?
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:15 pm
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Look at second hand too.
I bought my son a Vox AC15 recently (not one of the fancy hand wired ones) and it sounds fantastic.
The tremolo circuit is great too if you keep the intensity down - I prefer the sound of a subtly used tremolo effect over the sound of a chorus pedal any day of the week 8)


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Post subject: Re: Good amp to match a strat?
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:16 pm
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53magnatone wrote:
As for digital / solid state replication of Valve amps. NO .. Play a Twin Reverb next to a Mustang or whatever digital replication modded amp. It is not the same sound. Physics come into play as an 8inch speaker is never going to be able to be a Bassman or a Twin Reverb or let alone a 4 speaker 100 watt Marshall or Univox or even a 1960's Magnatone.
Granted the sound will be in the range but still far away when push comes to shove. You can do more thru an overdriven small tube amp with your fingers and hands then you can with a myriad of boxes and software programs. The latter are always clipped and compressed and never sensitive enough to detect minute difference of attack.


... NO? :cry:

Dang it dude, you can't own a G-DEC3 Thirty or Mustang amp to say that.
Well I and some others aren't ashamed to enlighten you... :wink:

Billy Hell pits a real 1969 Twin Reverb against a new Fender GDEC 3 30
http://youtu.be/nX6gVCqDt7g

And my demo of a G-DEC3 Thirty... with my first ever electric guitar, a 1966 Maton Slenderline
http://youtu.be/L7OUOj9d5XY

That's the problem with old school, I used to be that way, then I thought If I don't go there, then I'll never now, eh.

Do yourself a favour, you don't wanna miss out on all the fun before you're dead. :twisted:

I tried to find a G-DEC3 amp on the market for a another friend, nobody want's to sell em, why should they.
These have the ability to load 100 backing loops, in the amp...also an invaluable tool for jamming and technique practice. But the Mustangs don't have loops.

I've seen the G-DEC3 Thirty used in 2 REAL recording studios I know of. They record direct out Stereo, and monitor them.
They have speaker cab physics emulation.... more speakers and cabs, amps and FX than you or I will ever own, or got room for... sounding good enough for me, and I can't tell much difference from my tube amps with vintage tubes and hardware I have here.

To clarify, there is no external distortion overdrive FX pedal I've used that can better the note attack of my driven Peavey Delta Blues with vintage tubes.
The G-DEC3 goes closest.
Rarely will we experience an amp Master Vol turned to 10, and experience the resultant power tube saturated mega sustain, without losing attack clarity...but now I can, any time, even with headphones.

I bought a Boss multiFX pedal GT 10 8 years ago...worst sounding piece of $@!& I've come across...swore I wouldn't buy digital again...and now look what I did lol.

I jam for fun regularly with a harmonica player and lap slider, they both comment on my G-DEC3 tone...the harmonica player bought one.

So dude, if I want air from speakers moving in my apartment. I'll put a fan on me, and emulate. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Good amp to match a strat?
Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:18 am
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^^ OK Mr. Spicoli
To clarify, did have a G-Deck, past tense, nope doesn't work for me. As for various amps over the years, other than what I just posted, a couple silver faced, a couple black faced, Univox, Fender HRD, Champ 600, Mesa Boogie and a few borrowed here and there.

Yes I'll agree to your point that in a bedroom setting for practice OK, a G-Dec will work but I still consider them overkill. Too many bells and whistles. as well as at a certain point you need to stop acting like a chameleon and just play. Throwing all the colors in the light spectrum on a canvas does not transform you into an impressionist era painter. It just washes out. Same with these amps. It becomes gadgetry and ceases to be musical notes. I can also appreciate studio effects when correctly applied. But tweaking programs does not make you a musician.

But you really missed my point as I wasn't suggesting cranking a 60 watt amp in a 20x18 room. My point was more to illustrate that you need an amp from which you will be able to go to a club gig and plug in a bigger amp, play and there is your sound. Cannot do that if you only play a small practice digital solid state then go up to a 25+ wattage amp ( valve ) in a live setting. ( A 40 watt like a HRD is often way too loud for a venue with 100-200 max patrons which was why I sold mine. )
Searching for that bedroom sound will prove to be elusive at best. I have tried it repeatedly and it comes down to keeping the amp configuration in the same framily, just increasing the wattage to match the setting. Not easy or simple but does require a bit of experimentation.

And the " Dude " thing, talking about old school :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Good amp to match a strat?
Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:00 am
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Haha Mr Tone, you've had too many dusty old amps, you should know what you like.
Yes keeping it simple with the warm fuzzy dim glow of a tube amp, is more practical than getting lost in the massive hypnotic array of tweaking the Fender Fuse program.

I'm ok with all that whizbang of the GDEC3 amp...depends how I throw those colors at the canvas, can be pretty trippy at times, lost in that world.
I love the diversity it gives. Yeah chameleon, that's it, just don't box me in dude :)

Gigging these days ain't worth the pay, for all my effort and time. Now it's recording ideas.
And a sweet little tube amp with just good versatile delay and reverb pedals is great too, till I nod off in a trance from the delay feedback loop.

Mr Spicoli... how weird, was I like that? No way dude, I was too busy trying to smoke my guitar :?

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Post subject: Re: Good amp to match a strat?
Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:54 am
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Concerns over modeling amps are twofold:

a.) The 'model' is based on digital data from samplings of the amp being modeled. This means that averages are used to achieve the model. Not very true reproduction IMHO. Kinda like a modern Beetle or Mini which gave you the 'flavor', but in no way the true feeling, of the original.

b.) While no doubt packed w/ endless features and Tones, are modern guitar players slowly starting down a path where they cease to be musicians and are simply composers and monitors of the gadgetry ? I truly don't know the answer to this.

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: Good amp to match a strat?
Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:15 pm
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Thanks Lightnin MN, you've clarified the discussion.

And JS I would say in some instances I'm old school, but I have to use a VAG-COM into my under dash port to identify codes and realign the parameters in the ECU in my car. I'm also in the process of a career change to IT software design. Yeah one can teach an old dog new tricks, but this old-er dog prefers to assimilate, adapt and implement new parameters. I have to constantly find solutions to problems in my field on a daily basis. So yeah I prefer the sound of tubes pushed to their crying modes Yet you can find me listening to 13th century vocal music and the next day I may be listening to John 5 or Raimmstein and then back to Anne Sophie Mutter, Tommy Bolin or Al Petteway, Hopkinson Smith, Julia Fisher or step out to catch Neil Vitullo or Roomful of Blues or the Schemers ?
I and my ears much prefer to hear musical notes, not dissonance. In that quest digital sampling still has not replaced analog. A perfect example is today's proliferation of Vinyl LP's resurfacing on the market. Digitized music formatting cannot accurately process ( for lack of a better word ) music that is created in an analog system due to physics. A frequency's signal cannot be clipped/compressed and then reproduced exactly on the other side. Maybee someday but not yet. My ears can tell the difference.
Not so old school Eh ??

And Yeah !!! starting your post response with "" DUUUDE "" is so Spicoli but Hey... Perhaps if we turn it up to 11 we'll hear something special ... :lol:

BTW.. I'll take Mr. Tone as compliment. I did like your vid.

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Mr. Tone-ing Out

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Post subject: Re: Good amp to match a strat?
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:28 am
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I like the way the satin finish Stratocaster sounds through an Orange Dark Terror. I like the way my Deluxe Stratocaster sounds through my 1976 Super Reverb as well as through a Marshall DSL5C, both through the speaker and headphones. My Strat Deluxe also has a special incredible tone through an Epiphone Valve Junior, using an EH LPB-1. You get this articulate crunch that will make you take notice right away.


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Post subject: Re: Good amp to match a strat?
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:07 pm
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Yes, which amp will sound good and feel good to you is quite subjective.
Most can give you an idea of what they like or liked and that's a great place to start.

Do you have a particular players tone you are looking for?
Or do you have an idea/description of the type of tone/s you want?
Do you want clean and bright, clean and dark?
Distortion from the amp or pedals?

There are so many good and great amps out there it really is best to get to your local music store and start playing as many as you can to get an idea of the type of tones particular amp makers offer.

A Fender Hot Rod Dlx3 is a great amp and can be had in your price range if used.
It's a great clean platform on which to build your Strat tone.
It has a distortion channel, but I for one don't really like it.
Cleans are great and the reverb is really nice too.

Bugera V series amps, V22 and V55, are really nice sounding amps with Strats as well and the price is great too. They have a more "vintage" tone, which means it's more Fender like.
Bugera amps have had teething problems in the past but their V series amps have been really solid.
The V22 is 22 watts with a 12" speaker for $380 new and lower with coupons depending on who you buy from. Guitar Center has one used for $270.
V55 is 55 watts with a 12" speaker for $450 new. That one can be had in the "Infinium" line, which is circuitry that auto bias's the power tubes continuously and it's supposed to help the tubes last longer, but the best thing is that it adjusts bias so you can swap in different power tubes without needing to re-bias.

There are good solid state amps too that sound really nice and are less fussy over the life of the amp as there aren't any tubes to deal with.

If you don't gig then don't worry about getting a higher wattage amp.
Even 5 watts is plenty for home use and if you keep wattage down you can spend the money on a lower powered amp that has better tone.


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Post subject: Re: Good amp to match a strat?
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:22 pm
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Get a Mustang III V2. If you find a model you really like then you can explore buying an expensive tube amp that is the real deal. Google it... there is a guy on YouTube that challenges people to tell the difference double blind between a real tube amp and the Mustang that he has tuned to model it. 50-50 at best. When he did the Eric Clapton signature Champ, the Mustang won! $300 vs. $1200!

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Post subject: Re: Good amp to match a strat?
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:45 am
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This is the guy In the blues
Search in his channel for Mustang and have fun

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Post subject: Re: Good amp to match a strat?
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:15 am
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I agree with the points above in respect of valve over solid state. Valves have a dynamic reaction to attack which solid state seems unable to replicate.

The trouble with valves is they aren't linear in their power delivery and don't sound over driven until they are turned up.

In summary they can be very, very loud.

On the plus side there are a spectacular number of 5 Watt, and under valve amps out there. They have an array of features or nothing more than a volume knob.

Don't be put off by a lack of tone controls as you are after the tone of the amp. I had a Marshall MV 50 years ago (sadly missed) and the tone controls were almost irrelevant as they did next to nothing.

The main consideration is what sound you are after British or American. American amps tend to do cleans extremely well and break up into a nice bluesy crunch. British amps struggle with convincing cleans but break up in to total metal mayhem. That said, Vox amps do seem to get somewhere in between.

The main indiction of what the amp is likely to deliver is valve type. Marshall (and the like) use EL84s, and derivatives there of, Fender (and the like) 6L6s. There are exceptions to this but they give an indication of where the amp is likely to be.

As a matter of note Eric Johnson uses both Fender and Marshall amps and swaps between the two subject to if he wants clean or dirty.

There are some great amps to be had, for relatively little money, which don't have big names on the front. Because it is the valves that are doing the work their internals are very similar.

All said and done only your ears will know what's right for you but, even noting the compressed tonal qualities of YouTube, there are many reviews available which may give you a starting point.

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Post subject: Re: Good amp to match a strat?
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:50 am
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John Sims makes my point... don't invest in a valve/tube amp until you know which one you want. And, as he points out, even at 15 watts you will be hard pressed to overdrive a tube amp at home without earplugs or an attenuator. A solid state modeling amp can achieve any level of overdrive at any volume. Heavy metal at 3am.. no problem! I traded a lovely Peavey Delta Blues 2x10 30 watt for my Mustang V half-stack. I couldn't achieve the bluesy crunch that was my Delta Blues amp's signature feature without blasting the house! Now I play a HALF-STACK at any volume I want with any tone I want! I have always intended to replace the Peavey Delta Blues with a Fender Blues Jr. But realistically even at 15 watts the Blues Jr. is going to be very loud and, thus, I will probably not use it much if I get it.

Especially if you like the idea of playing your Fender through Fender amps... the Mustang is unbeatable. The Fender models on the Mustang are out of this world good and there are excellent models of Marshalls, EVH 5150, Orange, Mesa and many others that sound great. Plus all the stomp and effect models you can use.

If you find your music gravitating toward a particular sound... by all means, then invest in the tube amp and analog stomps/effects that create that sound and play on the real deal! (Every amp model and stomp/effect on the Mustang emulates a real tube amp or real analog stomp/effects unit commercially available.) In the meantime PLAY AND EXPLORE with the Mustang which is an excellent deal at new retail but can also be found gently used all over the place dirt cheap!

Do try to get a Mustang version 2.0 if you go the Mustang route - they added a lot of very desirable amps and effects missing from version 1. Also, don't bother with a Mustang I or II - get the III or even a IV (if you want twin speakers.) The III, IV and V can be fully controlled onboard whereas the I and II will require hooking up to your computer and Fender FUSE for maximum utility. My Mustang V half-stack is overkill for my usage... but it is what I got for the Peavey amp. I would have been uber-happy with a IV.

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Post subject: Re: Good amp to match a strat?
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:10 am
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Having re read the original question I take the liberty of assuming the OP isn't terribly experienced - this isn't meant as an insult but is relevant to my answer.

Valve amps are very lovely for many reasons and I would (now) personally choose a valve amp over solid state every time...but I have been playing for 40 years.

Initially you aren't going to appreciate, or be able to exploit, the subtleties that valves provide. Valve amps need to be chosen for a specific use as they have a limited volume window for any particular tone...This generally means they are too loud for home use. Even 5 Watts will be loud enough to annoy the neighbours if you like it cranked.

I have played a friends Mustang and had a Behringer modelling amp in my rack. Both were very good (for solid state) and the Mustang probably better. I continued to used the Behinger for speaker modelling and effects for some time after I added a Marshall JMP1 (valve pre amp) to take care of the front end.

If you get a second hand Mustang and then, after a few months/years, sell it you wont loose much (if anything) and will learn a great deal.

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Post subject: Re: Good amp to match a strat?
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:53 pm
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JMR120600 wrote:
So, i bought a MIM Strat last month, and was wondering what a good amp would be for aroud 300 GBP max, I want something with a nice crunch sound, and i am not really sure what i should be looking for, as this is my first time looking for an amp.

Thanks in advance.


A Laney Cub 10, all tube combo, would be a fantastic first amp. Ten watts, two 6V6 output tubes, two 12AX7 preamp/PI tubes, 10 inch Celestion Tube 10 speaker, external speaker jack, hi and lo input jacks, volume, tone, and gain controls, bias adjust pot, hum adjust pot. The volume is on par with a Vibro Champ, just a bit louder than the VC, and the tones are fantastic, from clean to crunch to higher gain.

I got mine, brand new, for about $200 US, and I really enjoy using it with an SSS Strat, wonderful tones from this little combo. I swapped the Tube 10 speaker for a Celestion G10 Gold alnico, but found it to be too clean, so I put the Tube 10 back in and love it. :D

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Post subject: Re: Good amp to match a strat?
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:38 am
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http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00D8XZI4E/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=Q21VDMK39GXV&coliid=IK1I5SZ2NUA2S

A complete tube amp for the price of a pedal. ;-)

If I didn't already have two Fender Champion 600's and a Bugera V5 Infinium (which certainly doesn't suck as a Blues amp) I'd have to try one of these.

For the price it would be rude not to. :-)

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