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Post subject: Saddle touching Bridge plate screw on first string
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:59 pm
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I was trying to set the intonation today on my 2011 American Standard Stratocaster and the high E string was giving me a problem. The note on the 12th fret seemed to be flat but I couldn't make the string length any shorter because the saddle was right up against the bridge plate screw and could go no further. I hope that makes sense. What the heck could I do to fix this?

I think I am using .010 strings and 4 tremolo claw springs. Would changing to .009 and/or going back to 3 trem claw springs make a difference?

Thanks


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Post subject: Re: Saddle touching Bridge plate screw on first string
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:07 pm
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Hi bulaman,

Go the other way, and see if you reach a point that is closer to what you need, maybe not perfect but close. Are you sure that your tuner is at 440? The number of springs has no affect on intonation, but different string guage will.

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Post subject: Re: Saddle touching Bridge plate screw on first string
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:17 am
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In my experience, if the adjustment space on saddles runs out either way, there often is something wrong in the setup. (Of course, as shimmilou suggested, this era of digituners has brought a new possible cause: tuner settings may be wrong...)

But:
Did this happen right after a string change? (Sometimes a string is faulty - or if you changed the string gauge, did you check/adjust the guitar setup?)
How is the trem plate, floating (how high?) or resting on the guitar body?
Have you measured the "rough intonation"? (= Set the highE saddle to exactly scale length.)
Measure the relief, action - are these OK? Pickup height? Are the neck screws nicely tight, and does the neck angle seem right?

In general, I'm suggesting you set the guitar to factory specs - that usually helps.


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Post subject: Re: Saddle touching Bridge plate screw on first string
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:17 am
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shimmilou wrote:
Hi bulaman,

Go the other way, and see if you reach a point that is closer to what you need, maybe not perfect but close. Are you sure that your tuner is at 440? The number of springs has no affect on intonation, but different string guage will.


I'm using a Boss TU-2 and I'm not sure what 440 means, but I can hear the note is flat at the 12th fret.


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Post subject: Re: Saddle touching Bridge plate screw on first string
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:26 am
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jmattis wrote:
In my experience, if the adjustment space on saddles runs out either way, there often is something wrong in the setup. (Of course, as shimmilou suggested, this era of digituners has brought a new possible cause: tuner settings may be wrong...)

But:
Did this happen right after a string change? (Sometimes a string is faulty - or if you changed the string gauge, did you check/adjust the guitar setup?)
How is the trem plate, floating (how high?) or resting on the guitar body?
Have you measured the "rough intonation"? (= Set the highE saddle to exactly scale length.)
Measure the relief, action - are these OK? Pickup height? Are the neck screws nicely tight, and does the neck angle seem right?

In general, I'm suggesting you set the guitar to factory specs - that usually helps.


The strings were changed a while ago, but the guitar has been in the case and hasn't been played for many months.

I just did a complete setup yesterday following Dan Erlewine's Repair Guide, but I'm just a beginner when it comes to Strat setups.

During my setup there was a little bit of relief in the neck, so I tightened the truss rod nut. I think I gave it a complete turn or close to a complete turn, and yet there was still some relief in the neck. I was afraid of tightening it any more so I left it.

Here are some pics: http://imgur.com/a/E2nur. Let me know if anything seems off. Thanks


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Post subject: Re: Saddle touching Bridge plate screw on first string
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:33 am
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Do not rely on old strings for setting the intonation, I suggest you to try with a new strings set.
From the pictures it looks to me like you still have room to move the low e saddle! You don't see the screw end in the picture from the top, but the screw is still engaged in the saddle, I would say you still have 2/3 turns available.
One full turn on truss rod? That's much, recheck the neck relief after a couple of hours, wood can take time to adjust to the new tension.
Alberto


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Post subject: Re: Saddle touching Bridge plate screw on first string
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:11 pm
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All I can tell from your pics is that it's a nice guitar :wink:

So the same questions as before - based on the good principle "when in trouble, measure".
The first thing to check is the string length of the highE; it should be very close to 25.5"/647,7mm (from the nut contact point to the saddle contact point).
Check also the trem plate height; the factory spec for the gap between the body and the bridge rear is 1/8"/3.2mm

On that truss rod adjusting: in factory specs, a Strat should have .010"/0,25 mm relief. Are you trying to get to "no relief"?

And, I don't have that Erlewine book, but the specs should be similar to Fender's Strat Setup Guide


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Post subject: Re: Saddle touching Bridge plate screw on first string
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:25 pm
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With a full turn on the truss to straighten... I lean in that direction as to the prob.
If the neck is dead staright or slighly backdowed... you're adding length to the overall distance.

I have a funny feeling... your neck is too straight and needs a touch of relief. If there's not enough that's also going to cause a lot of other problems as well :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Saddle touching Bridge plate screw on first string
Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:11 am
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I would start by first measuring the nut to saddle length on the high E string. Make sure it's set to the correct scale length. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Saddle touching Bridge plate screw on first string
Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:27 pm
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tune the open string bang on...lightly press on the twelth and look at your digital tuner....if the octave note is sharp then you lengthen the scale and if the octave note is flat then you shorten the scale until open and octave are the same.

best wishes ....andy


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Post subject: Re: Saddle touching Bridge plate screw on first string
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:38 pm
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sand or mill about 10- 20 thousands off the back of your saddle. That should be enough to get it in tune, whit a little to spare

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Post subject: Re: Saddle touching Bridge plate screw on first string
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:50 pm
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A quick look at the pictures and I see that the bridge plate is not in the correct position.

If you slacken off the strings I think you'll find the leading edge of the bridge sitting proud of the guitar body. The rear of the bridge plate will be below the leading edge.
You need to screw the bridge posts in until the bridge sits flat on the guitar body, but before you do that you'll need to disconnect the springs into the tremolo block.

If you turn those screws while there's tension on the bridge there's a strong possibility that you'll damage the knife edges on the bridge plate.

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Post subject: Re: Saddle touching Bridge plate screw on first string
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:28 pm
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Stratmangler2 wrote:
You need to screw the bridge posts in until the bridge sits flat on the guitar body, but before you do that you'll need to disconnect the springs into the tremolo block.


Wow no no... not flat :lol:
Trem height also won't cause your Hi E running out of forward space.

That is a floating 2 point trem, and should not be screwed down to the body.
This in fact needs space under so it can pivot UP and DOWN.
Approximately a similar floating height at the rear and front.
3 trem springs, adjusted to correct trem rear height

Check Carl's video out others, lets the secret out...
Carl Verheyen: Whammy Bar Setup Secrets
http://youtu.be/Iy-F7iSIopA?list=PLGYaRuTfWPbjlzgXKRx0ghY5scxMCc3Yo

How to keep your Strat tremolo in tune. Frudua Way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0Oyc6slYRc

Your pics look fine to me, except for the Hi E saddle...??
Old strings can do that.
Or you have a chip out of the front of your NUT on Hi E. :?
String length may be extended by nut leading edge chipped back.
Would do no harm in trying a new nut. Or an Earvana nut, excellent at intonation.
Apart from that, dunno man...maybe your frets have moved due to HAARP emmissions ?? :wink:

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Last edited by Johnny Soniq on Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Saddle touching Bridge plate screw on first string
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:21 pm
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Strat-Slinger wrote:
With a full turn on the truss to straighten... I lean in that direction as to the prob.
If the neck is dead staright or slighly backdowed... you're adding length to the overall distance.

I have a funny feeling... your neck is too straight and needs a touch of relief. If there's not enough that's also going to cause a lot of other problems as well :wink:

Looking the whole thread over I'd agree this is the best place to start looking. I've never seen a Strat yet that needed a whole turn. Ever. Any guitar I've ever adjusted for that matter. A whole 360º turn is NOT normal.

jaknzax wrote:
sand or mill about 10- 20 thousands off the back of your saddle. That should be enough to get it in tune, whit a little to spare

Please do NOT do this. Under ANY circumstances.


I looked very carefully at the bridge plate in the pics provided because that came to my mind as well. I saw no misalignment or incorrect positioning of the posts or the plate. If you adjusted the angle of the neck using shims or micro-tilt you may have thrown something out of whack that way as well. Please also advise if the nut has been touched. Filing, grinding, sanding, replaced, etc.

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Post subject: Re: Saddle touching Bridge plate screw on first string
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:43 pm
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Johnny Soniq wrote:
...

That is a floating 2 point trem, and should not be screwed down to the body.
This in fact needs space under so it can pivot UP and DOWN...


Wrong. The bridge should be flush with the body when the whammy is pulled up fully. This does allow Up and down when setup this way. :roll:

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