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Post subject: 1976 Strat - anyone knows more about this one ?
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:54 pm
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Hey guys,

before I start I want to give you a short introduction to all this. I'm posting this in my dad's name (since supposedly my english is better than his ;) - but you got to know that he is the guitar man in the family and my knowledge about this is limited).
Anyways as a hobby collector (guitar count 40+ and rising) and guitar worshiper he just got his hands on a new Stratocaster.
The thing is: my dad is not content with just playing his guitars, he wants to know as much about them as he can. So I figured I might help him out by showing you guys his latest 'conquest' and maybe one of you might know some more about it - if not: no harm done and I hope you enjoy the pictures!

So here it is:

Image

Its a Strat from 1976 signed by John Mayall (signed 2006 at a gig here in Germany).

Image

We suppose the neck is made by Xavier Armenta (who also made the neck for Clapton's Brownie) due to a stamp on the inside of the neck that states "X(?)ARMENTA" in red:

Image

Here are some more pics:
Image
Image
Image
Image

If you feel the need to see a part of this guitar up close and in detail just ask from some more pics and we will happily oblige ;) - same goes for any more infos that my dad can give you on this.
Bottom line: feel free to share whatever you know (or assume) about this guitar.

Enjoy the pictures and keep on rockin'
Mike

€: fixed the pic's - hope it works now ;)


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Post subject: Re: 1976 Strat - anyone knows more about this one ?
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:23 pm
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Very nice guitar .

I went in Germany in september and I like it very much


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Post subject: Re: 1976 Strat - anyone knows more about this one ?
Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:00 pm
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Sweet old Strat alright, looks allmostly original Very nice.


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Post subject: Re: 1976 Strat - anyone knows more about this one ?
Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:28 pm
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I'm a collector of '70s era Streats, so here's what I know.
Based on the serial number, it's a late '76 Strat. Fender moved the serial number from the neck plate to the headstock in late '76. To get a better idea of when the guitar was actually made, look at the stamp at the base of the neck.

1. Body – Ash bodies. Contours will be less pronounced compared to older Strats.

2. Finish – Polyester with a nitrocellulose color coat and top coat.

3. Colors from ’74 – ‘77 - Blonde, Black, Olympic White, Natural, Walnut and 3-color-sunburst

4. Bridge – In '71 bridges were changed to a single piece of cast metal
Zinc, Aluminum and other metals. Saddles are made of the same materials, which means strings can cut through the saddles pretty easily. Be careful.

5. Pick guards & Plastic Parts – 1975 thru 1976 black pick guard with white parts.
By 1977 all part would be black. The fact that the serial number on the pickguard and he neck is a really good sign. By '77 Fender was doing this for tracking.

6. Tuning keys - Tuning buttons are chromed over plastic. This seems very wierd to me, and is very surprising, but not to worry, they work just the same.

7. 2 String Trees

8. Pickups – Fender went to flat pole pieces by late 1974. Fender also go sloppy with wax potting, so they not properly wax potted and may be microphonic. This is not the end of the world. Pickups may squeel at high volumes, but you can lower the pickups to remove the problem. You can also have them wax potted and solve the problem.

9. Neck Plates & Serial Numbers – By late '76 all serial numbers were move to the headstock. This is not a completely accurate way to date Fender guitars, but it will get you close. The best way to date a Strat is to remove the neck and check the stamp at the base of the neck.
Here is the code with an example.
MMNN*WWYD
0903*0563
09 – (Model) Stratocaster
03 – (Configuration) Maple
05 – (Week) 5th Week
6 – (Year) 1976
3 – (Day of the Week) Wednesday
January 28 or February 4th

I don't think it is, but don't be surprised to find out that the guitar is actually a 1977 Strat. This is pretty common. I purchased a Strat with with a "S9" serial number and it turned out that the guitar was actually built in Febuary 1980.

10. Inside the Body
Pot dates
OOWWYY Example: 202378 - It is believed the first two digits are an operator designation for the person operating

pickup routs are larger and less rounded. If the
11. The electronics - The bridge pickup will be wired straight through to the volume, so none of the tone controls will work. Fender has since connected the middle and bridge pickups to the rear tone knob. The selector should be a 3-way switch. In '77, Fender went to a 5-way switch. If you have a 3-way switch, you can move it in-between to get those classic in-between tones. I strum the strings open once and move the selector till I hear the pickups change tone.

I hope all of this helps. Let me know waht you learn about the neck date and how it sounds. If you can post a video, that would be cool.


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Post subject: Re: 1976 Strat - anyone knows more about this one ?
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:45 am
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I know that many people have an issue with the 3 bolt neck because many of them move around in the neck pocket (the part of the body where the neck fits into the body). This is not always true, but it does happen more times than anyone would like. The problem has more to do with the size of the pocket itself. Fender was making the pockets too big. I had this happen with one of my '70s era Strat.

I was able to limit the amount of movement by shimming the neck. I took a piece of thick card stock (the thickness of a business card folder over on itself) and put it in the base of the pocket. The problem went away.


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Post subject: Re: 1976 Strat - anyone knows more about this one ?
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:30 pm
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Thanks for sharing the pictures.

The pot shown dates to the 36th week of 1976.

_________________
Member #26797
My other guitar is a Strat.

Image


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Post subject: Re: 1976 Strat - anyone knows more about this one ?
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:51 am
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Hey guys!

Glad you enjoy the pictures!

@paris Thanks for the detailed answer, my dad worked through it and got really exited about all the stuff you posted ;)!
Here are some more thoughts ideas and questions he has

Regarding:
5. pick guard: this one here has 4 layers. Most of the strats my dad found from this time period seem to have lesser layers. So do you know if the 4 layer pick guards were already used? Could have possibly been changed afterwards?

6. Tuning keys: 3 of his keys have just a bit of a wiggle room but that doesn't influence the tuning in any way.

8. Pickups: this one has the flush/flat pole pieces and as far as we can hear there is no squeeling of any kind - no matter how loud it gets. Sounds actually pretty great when you turn up the amp to the max! ( Don't worry we are working on getting you some audio ;) )
The previous owner (a professional) was useing 009-strings with a rather straight neck setting. My dad adjusted the neck to a bit looser setting and strung up some 10-D’Addario-strings since he's not THAT nimble-fingered.

9 neck plate and serial numbers:
the previous owner gave us this (rather bad quality :/) pic of the neck code:
Image
The last 4 digits should be either 4064 or 5064. According to your explanation this should then correspond with either 1.10.76 or 9.12.76. So that seems to fit the bill.

10 pots:
Both of the tone pots are original. The volume one had to be exchanged due to wear. So the new one is a CTS.

11 electronics: haven't had a detailed look at the routing yet. The previous owner did connect the lower tone pot to the bridge-pickup and it seems to work quite well.
As you guessed it's one of the old 3 way switch selectors. And as you described: you get the nice in-between tones when you put it in-between and keep it there with a toothpick like Clapton ;)!

He's got some more questions for you:

-What's your best guess: What would a guitar like this be worth in the States at this time? Prices over the pond are quite different compared to yours as far as we can tell.

-Do you think the John Mayall signature influences the value/nature of this one?
By the way: My dad took a picture of Mayall signing this one for the previous owner 8 years ago:
Image
Quite funny that he happend to take this and then later get his hands on the guitar!

- Is the fact that Yavier Armenta seems to have worked the neck important? Of course he would have worked on a lot of necks but then again he also did work on quite famous ones as well.

Anyway: Thansk for all the infos you gave us!

Keep on rockin'
Kingswell


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Post subject: Re: 1976 Strat - anyone knows more about this one ?
Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:50 am
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:54 am
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He's got some more questions for you:

1. Has the pickguard been swapped out?

Answer - At first, I thought the pickguard was aftermarket due to the white back. But the fact that the pickguard has the proper Fender serial number sticker on the back indicates to me that the pickguard is most likely original.

2. What's your best guess: What would a guitar like this be worth in the States at this time? Prices over the pond are quite different compared to yours as far as we can tell.

Answer - Based on my 2014 Vintage Guitar Price Guide, the guitar is worth $1,900 to $2,400. These values are based on excellent condition, from low end to high end.

Keep in mind that, to a serious collector, anything that has been altered will devalue the guitar. I noticed that the case is not original. According to my price guide, this should not affect the value greatly. Refinishing will devalue the guitar by 50%. Minor repairsdone by a professional, such as a refret may lower the value by 5%.

-Do you think the John Mayall signature influences the value/nature of this one?
By the way: My dad took a picture of Mayall signing this one for the previous owner 8 years ago:

Answer - I'm not an expert in this area, so I will not comment on value. I will say that I having a photo gives the signature authenticity, but a better photo of John Mayall holding the guitar would have been better.

Is the fact that Yavier Armenta seems to have worked the neck important? Of course he would have worked on a lot of necks but then again he also did work on quite famous ones as well.

Again, this is beyond my area of knowledge.

Personal perspective as to value:

1. As a collector, I'm a player first, so I never care if a few pots or knob or two have been replaced. To me things like switches, frets and pots are like breaks on a car - parts wear out, replace them.

2. If you ever decide to sell the guitar, remember that guide values are not the end-all be-all of values. A dealer will not give what the guitar is worth. Selling on e-bay is pretty good, but from my experience, buyers will not give you top dollar. I sold a '78 Strat on e-bay (valued at about $1,700) for about $1,500.
Also there are a lot other guitars just like this out there. Have very accurate information and clear detailed photos. Any information you pride in the auction, which is not accurate, will be viewed as suspect or misleading. For instance, having the photo of the Fender serial number sticker on the back of the pickguard was big help.
I hope all of this helps.

Here is a video of my '75 Strat. I recorded this video to demonstrate various pickup tones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVQoDi9ohyA


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