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Post subject: I'm getting mixed info on checking neck relief
Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:26 pm
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I just bought a brand new 2014 American Standard HSS strat and I'm trying to check the neck relief. I have read through forums, Google searches, and watched YouTube vids and so I have a pretty good understanding of how you do it. I understand you hold down all strings at first fret with a capo, and hold down last fret with finger and measure the distance from bottom of low E string to top of the 7th fretwire.

However, half of the instructions show that you put the capo at the first fret (right before the first fret wire just like if you were going to use the capo to play) but the other half shows putting the capo directly over the first fret wire when measuring. At first I thought it wouldn't matter but I get two different readings/results depending on where the capo is.

I'm using feeler gauges, steel 1/64" ruler, and I made my own gauges from pieces of guitar strings (.009 - .014) to measure the relief and when the CPO is direcrluy over the fret wire the distance is smaller (about .010) but when the capo is just before the fret wire it is reading almost .014 - .015.

Can anyone give me some insight into this? Which is correct?

The whole reason I am even doing this is because my high E string (1st) is all the sudden choking out when I bend a whole step starting around the 10th fret and every single fret after that till the last fret. I just got this guitar 2 weeks ago and it did not do that until yesterday. I have not made any adjustments to it nor did I bang the guitar or leave it in a hot or cold place.

I realize I can raise the height but I don't want to unless absolutely necessary. It played fine the first two weeks.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

- Joe

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Post subject: Re: I'm getting mixed info on checking neck relief
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:01 am
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The purpose of the capo (1st fret) and the finger (last fret) is to press the string so it rests on top of the frets and acts as a ruler. It's morning here and I'm on my first (edit: second) cup of coffee, so I'll not guess why you get different results with the capo on or behind the 1st fret, I'll just leave it to that you're doing something wrong, the result should not change :wink:
BTW, relief can just as well be measured with a ruler (StewMac even has a $150 neck relief gauge on a ruler for the job...).

There are many ways to measure relief. The differences are small, but I'd recommend using Stratocaster Setup Guide for Stratocasters. So you measure the gap between the bottom of the string and the top of the 8th fret. Nothing wrong with those DIY gauges you made, but hey - a proper set sets you back just a few $'s/€'s.

On that choking when bending issue: You got a new guitar. Don't know if the shop you bought it from did a setup or if it just happened to play well right from the box, but now it a) has settled to the climate or b) you did some changes [new strings, different string gauge, microtilt adjusting, this relief stuff..?].

Anyway, the guitar needs a setup - a 9.5" radius should not choke, ever. Something is causing the upper neck area (tongue) to sit too close to the strings - the cause can be string height, relief, neck angle, saddles radius, or something else.

I get the impression you aren't very experienced on setups, so study the setup guide on the link above for future DIY adjustments (try to get the big picture how every adjustment affects others), but for now: take the guitar to a pro for the initial setup.


Last edited by jmattis on Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: I'm getting mixed info on checking neck relief
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:03 am
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Post subject: Re: I'm getting mixed info on checking neck relief
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:30 am
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The part beginning from 'round four minutes into that video should be XXX rated :lol:
An experienced pro can handle a neck joint like that, us mortals maybe with a little more TLC.


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Post subject: Re: I'm getting mixed info on checking neck relief
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:29 am
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Thank you for the responses. You are correct to assume that I don't have a lot of experience with the technical aspect of guitars but I amvery eager to learn. I am a carpenter and long time DIY type guy who is very handy so its about time I got into this. Anyway, I figured out why I was getting two different readings depending on if the capo was on fret one or literally over the fret wire. The capo I have has a pretty strong spring and so it was pushing down on the strings a bit too much causing the string to raise higher than it should. Same concept as if you press down with your finger on a fret too hard it will alter the pitch. I am assuming this is the reason some tutorials said to put the capo directly over the fret wire (since there is metal under the capo it cannot over press the string).

I was able to finally get an accurate neck relief measurement and it seems it came from guitar cente with the right amount. It is a 9.5 radius and it has about .010 -.011 relief. However the high E still chokes so I raised the saddle to about 2mm. This is slightly more than Fender reccomends as they say 1.6mm but I need to be rid of those dead bends..... So I dunno. Its a temporary fix until I can do more research.

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Post subject: Re: I'm getting mixed info on checking neck relief
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:22 am
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My necks relief is .013 not less. I have all precision tools from Stew Mac for reading and and have a lots of experience.

Fender specks are good to start with .009 strings . After that is a matter of taste , string gauge ans how hard you pluck your strings.

Don't forget if your frets are not in perfect shape/ same heigh ,you may have some string choke. This must not the case with a new guitar.

When you adjust truss rod you need to wait few hours . Neck could be slow to move .
It is sometime worst on new guitar . I often see waiting one day


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Post subject: Re: I'm getting mixed info on checking neck relief
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:40 am
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If the capo you are using is like mine and has a soft rubber cushion that rests on the strings, it's possible that when you place it directly over the fret you may be placing enough pressure that the rubber is forcing the strings down lower than the fret surface.
I would recommend placing the capo in front of (or closer to the head stock) to prevent this. The remainder is pretty simple if you just follow Fender's set up guide.

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Post subject: Re: I'm getting mixed info on checking neck relief
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:14 pm
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S Bender,

Interesting, it does have a thick rubber cushion but I thought my problem was the opposite of what you are saying. I thought by placing it directly over the fret wire it wouldn't allow the strings to go down any further than necessary.

I always was taught (when playing) to put the capo as close to the fret wire as possible to get true pitch, but you are suggesting to put it as far away from the fret and closer to the head stock.. This is the mixed info I a! Talking about I keep hearing. Now I have 3 different techniques to wonder which will actually give me an accurate measure of neck relief. it's maddening!

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Post subject: Re: I'm getting mixed info on checking neck relief
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:27 pm
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Put the capo on just behind the 1st fret.
I tend to just use my fingers and rough it out (1st finger left hand at the 1st fret, pinkie of the right at the 17th fret, and right thumb on the 8th fret).
It gets things in the ball park, and to be honest you don't have to be all that precise!

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Post subject: Re: I'm getting mixed info on checking neck relief
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:01 pm
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This will help. This man's vids are the best on Youtube. He explains everything in detail. Just do as instructed... You'll get the proper relief for your Strat:

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Post subject: Re: I'm getting mixed info on checking neck relief
Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:11 am
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I appreciate the responses and videos, but even still this guy says put the capo right behind the fret and other guys (like the author of website Premier Guitar who's as pro as they get) states you should ONLY put the capo directly on the fret wire.

It makes sense I get two different readings depending on where I put the capo since the capo pushes down heavily on the strings so if it is behind the fret it raises the string up more than if it was on the fret wire (since the fret wire itself would stop the strings from gong down any further).

I realize both ways could work cause both ways are still creating a straight line with the string, but it would be relative and I don't know which one is the right starting point to determine my accurate fret relief.

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Post subject: Re: I'm getting mixed info on checking neck relief
Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:55 am
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Where do you put your finger, behind or on top of the fret..? :lol:
In other words, don't pay too much attention on new internet revelations.
The purpose is to get the string on top of the 1st fret. If you get different readings depending on where your capo is, one of the measurements is wrong - the 1st fret doesn't move.


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Post subject: Re: I'm getting mixed info on checking neck relief
Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:41 pm
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jmattis wrote:
Where do you put your finger, behind or on top of the fret..? :lol:
In other words, don't pay too much attention on new internet revelations.
The purpose is to get the string on top of the 1st fret. If you get different readings depending on where your capo is, one of the measurements is wrong - the 1st fret doesn't move.

+100
The capo placement on the fret itself seems a bit wack to me... what you want to read is the measurement of the string going over the 1st fret. That's the ticket right there. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: I'm getting mixed info on checking neck relief
Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:59 pm
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I understand what you're saying but it does make sense if you think about it that some capos do have strong springs and press the string down much harder than a fingers does when you're playing. Sometimes when I put my capo on just to play it has a slightly higher pitch than it should and I have to tune accordingly . so wouldn't that mean the capo is putting mor pressure on the strings than it should therefore raising the string higher when Imeasure relief?

I get a larger gap of about .015 on my strat when I have the capo before the fret and a gap of about .010 when it is directly on the fret. If I had a straightedge I could test which one is correct once and for all but I don't yet.

I hear what you both are saying but like I said lots of tutorials out there. All by guitar techs and luthiers and I get the both versioms .

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Post subject: Re: I'm getting mixed info on checking neck relief
Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:29 am
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IMHO, you're getting hung up on irrelevant details. The key here isn't measuring the relief, it's how to correct the choking.

Try adjusting the neck straight as an arrow, see if you can get the action back to specs.
If you're a big bender on a 9.5" neck, sometimes you have to "flatten the radius" with the saddle adjustments, sometimes go no relief, sometimes dress the frets, sometimes shim, sometimes all of those - or something else.
...

Keeping a good setup is a lot easier than doing one on a guitar with issues.
I suggested this before: let a pro to do the initial setup...


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