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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:39 pm
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I wouldn't write off your Strat just yet. It really sounds like there is something wrong. There shouldn't be that much of a difference between your Strat and Gibi.
It's possible that the setup you are using to go into the computer is attenuating the signal and possibly doesn't need that strong of a signal to begin with. So your Strat seems okay when hooked up to the computer. I would have someone check out the Strat for you.
As far as the amp rattling things, I've had many amps vibrate the floor under my feet. I was at a rehearsal studio last night using their Band Master and I couldn't turn the clean channel volume up past 1 1/2, and that was playing with a full band. If I had cranked it I would have blown everyone out of the room. No exaggeration intended!

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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:51 am
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i should have time this evening to try your suggestions, guys.
What i really dont like is the fact that the fender is silent until i crank it past 6.5 on a Vol knob, while gibson from 1.5 vol
I've put a CTS 250k vintage audio pot as volume. It's useless..... unless i burned it whilst soldering (?)
if you guys have time, check out a guitar solo of J.Page playing No Quarter, Earls Court 1975 May 24 (not 25th!). You'll see him changing volume and pickups selection ALL THE TIME and the result is fantastic. this what i want to achieve on a guitar and I'd like to be able to play in this style on a stratocaster.

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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:58 am
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That style depends on just what I wrote previously - the amp is dimed, the controlling happens on the guitar.
(Sorry, BMW-KTM, some of us just prefer that style. Mind you, when I was a lot younger my guitar vol/tone were always on 10, but age brings experience... :wink: )

On that potentiometer, in case you want to deepen your knowledge: GooglePics Linear/Logarithmic or further Pots for beginners guide


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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:24 am
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There's an interview with Page from about '74 where he told the magazine that he turns the gain, treble, presence and volume to 10 and turns the mids and bass to 0. I wish I had saved the link because it is hard to believe anyone could play with that hot of an amp.
I wouldn't attempt this at home without first having a structural engineer inspect the premises.
Personally, I play with my guitars volumes at 5 or 6, to give me room to adjust on the fly. I usually start with my tones about 7 for the same reason.

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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:09 am
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Just a sidenote: All my respect and love to Mr. Page, but borrowing his amp settings will only lead to disaster - after all, he must have used over a hundred different amps on stage - and most of them probably tweaked by some amp wiz. :mrgreen:


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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:11 pm
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jmattis wrote:
Just a sidenote: All my respect and love to Mr. Page, but borrowing his amp settings will only lead to disaster - after all, he must have used over a hundred different amps on stage - and most of them probably tweaked by some amp wiz. :mrgreen:

I fully agree. Nothing that Jimmy Page did to play in front of huge crowds in huge venues will translate down to what any of us will ever do.

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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:33 am
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to clarify: i dont intend to copy his amp settings, but his STYLE of playing, meaning, the way he changes volume and tones during a solo (as opposed to playing a solo without ever changing the GUITAR KNOB SETTINGS). thats why i refered to that video... you cant see his amp settings there anyway.

I want to be able to inject light and dark moods at varying volumes to a solo. And I cant do that if the bleeding volume doesnt respond for 70% of its turn.

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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:13 am
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Marianeq wrote:
I want to be able to inject light and dark moods at varying volumes to a solo. And I cant do that if the bleeding volume doesnt respond for 70% of its turn.

OK, by that I'll assume the pot gives you the most response on the about 6-10 levels, and that the volume level at 10 is OK.
It's a logaritmic (audio taper) pot, that's how it should respond - read the links on my previous post.

If you want the vol control to react differently, there are lots of pot types to choose from - a J-taper for instance gives a little different responce, or you can go linear.
It may be a long road of trial an error, but pots are cheap and if you want to improve your soldering skills ( :lol: ), go DIY.
Another option is to take it to a good* pro, explain what you want, what you don't like now and listen to his/her suggestions - they may include 500K pots, treble bleed or such.
Anyway, within limits of the single coil - humbucker performance difference, you should get what you want (of course, you might not be totally satisfied without a HSS, SSH, HSH or HH Strat :mrgreen: )

* I'm getting tired of writing "good" (or something like that) every time I write "pro" or "luthier" (or something like that). From now on, in all my posts, any professional title refers to someone who knows his/her job, unless specified otherwise.


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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:44 am
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jmattis wrote:
...when I was a lot younger my guitar vol/tone were always on 10, but age brings experience... :wink: )


Okie-dokie.

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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:54 pm
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just out of curiosity, is there any program i could download that can draw a graph of the volume change as i turn the vol knob?

basically what happens with the strat's volume is this:
vol.1 - nothing
vol.2 - nothing
vol.3 - nothing
vol.4 - nothing
vol.5 - nothing
vol.6 - nothing
vol.6.5 - 10% of the volume
vol.7 - ~50% of volume
vol.8 - 80% of volume
vol.9 - 95%
vol.10 - 100%

on a gibson its almost evenly spread, sans vol.1 where it's silent until i turn to 1.5vol

Why cant a stratocaster work in the same way? what type of pots to Gibson use that they get it "right"? i dont believe its the humbuckers that respond in such a way... but if it is that, then hell yeah i am buying me some seymour buckers. i want to play that stratocaster because its such a great guitar, but i really dont like the volume issue.
I'm all for soldering some different pots and pups and see what that does, I ain't affraid of experimenting, but it would be nice to know what's going on there.
I don't have time to do this any time soon, but i definitely want to sort it out.
please keep throwing your ideas and suggestions and wisdom here, i really appreciate your input :)

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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:09 pm
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Marianeq wrote:
yes it's the same strat. I changed the pots, cap and cables, and tested it on a laptop - everything working fine, pickups were responding well, the guitar really benefited from insulating the cavity and p-guard...


Just to clarify, if you play the strat through your laptop you are able to utilize the entire volume range? It's only when you play through the amp that the volume pot seems faulty?

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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:57 pm
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There is something wrong with this.
Check all you have done in terms of wiring again and if you cannot see anything sometimes a second experienced set of eyes can help you sort it.
assuming it happens on all pickup selections I would double check that volume pot i.e. does it measure 250k and does the wiper value change accordingly when you rotate it.
Also make doubly sure the lug on the pot is correctly grounded i.e. It is bent back so it is soldered to the case which in turn should have a black common ground wire connected to it!
Do you have any photos? :D


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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:04 am
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Not necessarily anything wrong:

Image

Now if the LP has a linear pot, and the Strat a logarithmic...


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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:32 pm
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Anything is of course possible and like you I would not rule anything out till the solution is found.
Don't forget that graph is the electrical characteristic of the pot not how humans will hear it.
The ear works logarithmically hence the term audio taper.
A gradual increase in volume is "heard" because of the logarthmic nature of both the pot and human hearing and this is why log pots are used for many audio applications.
In other words the change in level appears to be linear due to the log relationship between the ear and the log tapered pot.
A good graph nonetheless!
Of course there could be other issues or maybe the op has described it differently but are you telling me when you plug your strat in you get nothing from zero to six?
None of mine work that way
There may be many scenarios for the op I am just trying to help eliminate some .... for example without the earth on the pot it may be acting as a series variable resistor rather than a potential divider. :D


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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:41 am
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I have put a new CTS 250k vintage Audio pot and tried not to put too much heat onto it and for too long when soldering, then i resoldered the cables leading to the jack output (just in case). And sure enough the guitar is responding to volume change briliantly, the sound is now registering from 2 to 10 in a nice even spread (to my ears).
I think i must have killed that pot the first time i soldered it, and it was the very first time i even used a solder :shock: although it was kinda working when i finished replacing all pots and cables...
And as Ceri pointed out the single coils are not as hot as humbuckers, hence the overall volume was much lower when compared to buckers, under the same settings.
It is strange though that when i played both guitars through my laptop, the difference wasn't that prominent or detectable so i didnt question my soldering skills :lol:

I'm glad it wasn't anything really serious. thanks everyone for your advice. the stratocaster is back in action, BIG TIME hahaha

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