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Post subject: why so sad?....
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:57 am
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I have never owned an amplifier and, due to the nature of my job as a forest surveyor (changing accommodations few times a year), owning a heavy piece of equipment was never an option. I always got by by using Line6 GX pod and Zoom G2.1u pedal plugged iinto a laptop. However, recently i changed my career and now I work in a laboratory, so no more worrying "how many KG's of stuff i own". I'm renting a place from a jazz musician, who gave me a Marshall Valvestate 100watt to practice on and yesterday i put my Gibson LP Custom through it, dialed 3 on a guitar an amp and the blast from the amp literally made the wooden floor vibrate under my feet! I was scared to go higher with the volume, the sound was so immense.
Out comes Fender strat, same settings and everything.... squeak squeak somewhere in the background, sickly notes coming out like the guitar is about to die or something....
really the first time this fnder has been plugged in to an amp, and what a letdown!
whe i play it via laptop, everything seems ok, but through the amp the guitar feels absolutely lifeless. WHY??
what could be the reason for such a big difference?
my friend has a LP Standard, which we plugged in as well and, again, windows/floors/tooth fillings all rumbling and shaking.
I'm sitting in the lab writing this and i can't stop thinking about yesterday's disappointment...

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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:05 am
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...hmmm...Try going up to 4! :shock:

Worst comes to worst I'll take that ratty strat off your hands and spank it!! Woo-Hoo :lol:

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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:06 am
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Marianeq wrote:
i put my Gibson LP Custom through it, dialed 3 on a guitar an amp (...)
Out comes Fender strat, same settings and everything
(...)
sickly notes coming out like the guitar is about to die or something....

Now let's clarify that: if I read you right, you had the vol on #3 on both the guitar and the amp?
What happens if you dial the Strat vol to #10?

Edit: Is it this Strat: viewtopic.php?t=92962
and has the wiring now been checked and repaired by someone who knows how to?


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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:13 am
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Typical Humbucker vs Single coil output. Start your strat on 10's. Dial in your amp for each guitar. Same amp settings usually will not be right for different guitars.


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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:16 am
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jmattis wrote:
Marianeq wrote:
i put my Gibson LP Custom through it, dialed 3 on a guitar an amp (...)
Out comes Fender strat, same settings and everything
(...)
sickly notes coming out like the guitar is about to die or something....

Now let's clarify that: if I read you right, you had the vol on #3 on both the guitar and the amp?
What happens if you dial the Strat vol to #10?

Edit: Is it this Strat: viewtopic.php?t=92962
and has the wiring now been checked and repaired by someone who knows how to?


oops pardon me! i had the start at vol 10.
at vol 6 there was hardly anything coming out, while on the les paul the magic starts at 1.5vol

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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:28 am
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jmattis wrote:
has the wiring now been checked and repaired by someone who knows how to?


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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:34 am
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jmattis wrote:
Marianeq wrote:
i put my Gibson LP Custom through it, dialed 3 on a guitar an amp (...)
Out comes Fender strat, same settings and everything
(...)
sickly notes coming out like the guitar is about to die or something....

Now let's clarify that: if I read you right, you had the vol on #3 on both the guitar and the amp?
What happens if you dial the Strat vol to #10?

Edit: Is it this Strat: viewtopic.php?t=92962
and has the wiring now been checked and repaired by someone who knows how to?


oops pardon me! i had the start at vol 10.
at vol 6 there was hardly anything coming out, while on the les paul the magic starts at 1.5vol

yes it's the same strat. I changed the pots, cap and cables, and tested it on a laptop - everything working fine, pickups were responding well, the guitar really benefited from insulating the cavity and p-guard...

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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:48 am
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I've played a 130 watt Marshall Valvestate 212 combo (Stereo 65 model) and if your 100 watt 112 loner is really rattling the building with the volume at 3 on both the guitar and the amp then I would be looking for another place to live. Hopefully you were just exaggerating because if you weren't then I don't think it's safe to live there. Seriously. It is pretty much impossible to rattle a properly constructed building at those settings. Amp on 3, guitar on 3? No way. Sorry. Also you shouldn't be comparing one guitar to another and trying to judge tone or volume with the guitar volume pots not at maximum. Roll both guitar volumes up and compare them that way. You will still find the Gibson is hotter but the Strat will not sound as thin. Find a safe place to live first though.

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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:30 am
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ok maybe i exaggerated about the windows, but the floor boards were really vibrating under me at higher volume. i set the amp at 3 and i felt it was loud enough to satisfy me and my neighbours. Strat meanwhile required dialling to 6 and even then it lacked punch and vigour. i dont know.....
I will investingate the electronics more closely soon...

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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:59 am
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Marianeq wrote:
ok maybe i exaggerated about the windows, but the floor boards were really vibrating under me...even then it lacked punch and vigour. i dont know.....
I will investingate the electronics more closely soon...
sorry for that humorous misquote :lol:

Just fool with the amp settings and play some more. Start the next session with the Strat.

Maybe boost the mids for the single coil Strat and back off the mids for the humbucking Gibson. You'll find the best tone for you out of that amp.

You may never like the Strat on it.

You may just really love that Gibson sound out of that amp, your choice.

Welcome to the real world of sound (don't forget the search for TONE!!)...

...for your own sake don't forget to protect your EARS. Hearing damage is progressive and irreparable.

Have fun,

- Dan

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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:30 am
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Marianeq wrote:
ok maybe i exaggerated about the windows, but the floor boards were really vibrating under me at higher volume. i set the amp at 3 and i felt it was loud enough to satisfy me and my neighbours. Strat meanwhile required dialling to 6 and even then it lacked punch and vigour. i dont know.....
I will investingate the electronics more closely soon...


No problem.
Crank that Strat though.
The volume knob on a guitar affects tone as well as volume.
There are several different values of caps people will add to the volume circuit to modify how tone is affected with the use of the pot.
Crank the guitar up.
You normally should play it cranked and roll off for effect or to clean up your tone.
If it's too loud turn the amp down to 2.

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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:39 am
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About my reaction .... I wasn't trying to ridicule you or call you out.
You will find that the seasoned guys on this board will usually identify an obvious exaggeration immediately and put a stop to it. There is a reason for that. People come to this board for help. Exaggeration doesn't help anybody because it obscures the truth and makes giving accurate advise almost impossible. You're fairly new here with only about 80 posts or so, so you can be forgiven but try to keep your comments and questions factual. That way everybody wins. Cool?

Keep rockin'.

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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:55 am
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The key question here is, does the Strat sound as it should when the vol is maxxed - there will be a vol difference from the LP (vol maxxed), but it should not be squeal vs roar level.
And thus far we're only checking if that Strat is working as it should - the diagnose of possible problems comes after that.

BTW, BMW-KTM (<- what a nice set of acronyms...), I usually do the opposite of your advice; the amp dimed and control the vol/tone on the guitar. Buchanan style, you know.


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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:04 pm
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Maybe that's why I never could understand what was so special about Roy's tone. :wink:

:lol:

Seriously, if I need the amp dimed I will get a smaller amp and crank the guitar rolling off for effect or to clean up.

Concerning my acronyms ... I have one of each. The Bimmer is a K series and the Katoom is an E/XC.

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Post subject: Re: why so sad?....
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:27 pm
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jmattis wrote:
The key question here is, does the Strat sound as it should when the vol is maxxed - there will be a vol difference from the LP (vol maxxed), but it should not be squeal vs roar level.
And thus far we're only checking if that Strat is working as it should - the diagnose of possible problems comes after that.

That's a good post and gets to the crux of the matter. Let's put some numbers to this thing and narrow in on where the problem lies.

I also play Strats and Les Pauls through a variety of valve and solid state Marshalls, amongst them a 100 watt Valvestate. Things get a little complicated here, because if your Valvestate is like mine, Marianeq, it has volume & gain for each of the three channels, and a master volume. So. I'm setting gain and volume both to six on the clean channel. Then I'm setting the master volume to three. This gives a practice level volume which is perfectly humane, does not upset the neighbours and most certainly does not shake the floorboards or anything else.

The important bit. Setting an SSS Strat's volume knob to seven is giving me near enough the same final volume as setting the LP's volume knob to about four.

(Like jmattis, I also like to set up the amp and then "drive" the rig from the guitar. In case you're unfamiliar with this idea, Marianeq, it means you balance your knobs so "breaking point" - when the amp tips over from a clean-ish tone into a bit of overdrive - happens with the guitar's volume knob somewhere around six or seven. That gives you a nice general playing tone, and then when you want to push things harder you can crank the guitar volume knob higher, without touching the amp.)

Anyway. What we find is that using more or less the same rig as Marianeq a Strat set to about seven is equal in volume to a Les Paul on about four. Ve-e-e-ery different tone, but roughly similar volume.

Marianeq, try it. If you get something approximately similar then things are functioning right and what you are hearing is the difference between humbuckers and single-coils - which after all is why the different guitars exist. But if with these different volume knob settings your Strat truly sounds, as you put it, "squeak squeak... sickly notes coming out like the guitar is about to die", then something is wrong with your wiring. Then that is what we'll need to address.

Over to you.

Cheers - C

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