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Post subject: Spotting a FAKE FINISH on older Strat Plus or ...
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:47 pm
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I would like to share some tips with you about how to spot a fake finish on an older American Standard Strat or a Strat Plus guitar. I thought it best to start a new thread on this subject rather than have it be embedded in the thread entitled Oh Boy! More About Firestorm finishes! ( http://forums.fender.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=95474 ) where I disclose about the FAKE Firestorm finishes that are out there.

One eBay seller by the name of Rod Essex (tenstarguitars) has sold a number of rare Strat Plus finishes, some that have been proven to be refinished guitars. Now I see a few more floating around. Like a guy I know bought a Graffiti Yellow 1989 Strat Plus from a eBay seller in Seattle (name slips my mind) and the box was damaged during shipping. The guitar was hit hard, which exposed the refinish—grey auto primer and a different color inside. I have seen a number of guitars that have been refinished at Fender too, so I am hoping this thread will help you to tell the difference between a factory fix at the production stage verse a new refinish job that is being passed off as original.

Because the 1987 - 1990 Strat Plus’ value going up the last few years, especially the rarer colors such as such as Graffiti Yellow, Dusty Rose, Surf Green and some of the other vintage solid colors, there is a temptation to do a quick respray of a guitar with some damages and a common finish, to flip it to make a few bucks. Some of these are being done very cleverly to make it look like its original finish.

Lets start of with a guitar that is a FAKE that was sold by tenstarguitars. It was a RARE Shell Pink. When my friend bought it, he took it apart and took pictures for me to look over. It was obvious that the guitar has been refinished. I was once told that people who specialize in detecting counterfeit money do not study the fakes, but the instead study the genuine. So I am going to show you this fake finish and then spend a lot more time with you showing REAL vintage guitars. It will become apparent how to tell the difference! I will add, who ever painted these bodies went the extra mile to fraud the buyers. They even placed round stickers under the clear coat and carefully masked the neck socket.I will comment before each picture:

Now first glance this might look like the real deal, but it’s not. Note the yellow sticker? It is flat and smooth because it has a few thin clear coats of lacquer on it. Note the next picture. When Fender’s control stickers get shot, they are usually under the color coat, but either way, as the thick, sticky urethane on top of the sticker dries, it cause the sticker to curl. But more than just the sticker, not that there are no color differences between the exposed finish and the unexposed finish under the pickguard. You will understand more as I go on.

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Note the absence of any white, old dried out rubbing compound on the edges of the inside of the route? More on this is a second. But the route is clean and the sticker is flat and no traces of where the pickguard was due to the body fading! This is a thin lacquer clear coat! Also the masked neck socket. Very clean…FAKE… AND the black ground screw is a small little newer screw and Not the bigger ones that Fender uses.

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Here is a REAL Shell Pink Strat Plus from 1988. You see that there is a faint color change where the pickgaurd was located? Note the sloppy (Sorry guys at Fender!), paint in the neck socket? and the MS is seen on some of the 88s Plus’. Note the size of the screw as well? And the traces of rubbing compound.

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OK! Here are three good pointers. Lets examine some REAL Strat Plus guitars, and these pictures would also apply to the American Standards and many other vintage Fender guitars:

1) Look under the pickguard to see if there is a color variation between the exposed and unexposed finish. Due to the reaction of the clear coat to UV and oxygen, the exposed finish will aways be slightly darker and a little bit yellowed. Below I have a few obvious examples and then some less noticeable examples. While some might not be as drastic as the Surf Green example (first one below) you will always see at least a faint color change. Look at the 1988 Shell Pink and note the out like of the guard. Or even the near mint 1988 Taos Turquoise. There is almost no difference until you look closer at the lower horn, and then again you see the faint outline of the pick guard. Look at the 1988 Razz Berry Plus, and again you can make out the color differences. Obviously, if a guitar has been recently refinished there will be no distinction between the color that’s been exposed to that which as not been exposed, unless the refinish job took place years ago.

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2) Another thing to note in all these pictures the rubbing compound used in the buffing process at Fender. Rarely did Fender, in those days, thoroughly clean up the inside of a guitar. Both in the main body route, the jack plug route, and the neck route there are always traces of that rubbing compound. When people go to refinish a body they often use a cleaning solvent to get all the old wax and dirt off of the guitar body. In doing so they also remove all the rubbing compound residue. Then when they refinish the guitar very seldom do they ever take the time to buff the guitar out like they do at Fender. So that means the inside of the routes are often really clean. (Please note that sometimes an owner might take his guitar apart and clean up the inside, but generally this is a fairly good test of authenticity.) Some of these fakes will also have a dull finish if they were not buffed out or possible shot in lacquer. Look at all these pictures above and you will see traces, and even excesses, of buffing compound.

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3) Last but not least, these finishes are a thick polyurethane. This means that when the paint gets into the neck socket it often times makes the socket too tight for the neck to fit. So Fender puts the body, after it’s finished, back into a jig and uses a router to clean up the next socket so the neck will fit properly. This means that the majority of the older Strat Plus guitars will have wood exposed on the left and right sides of the neck socket, obviously cleaned out by a routing process. Now I have seen some older Strats where fender did not have to do this process, apparently because the measurements of the neck route after being finished was large enough to allow a neck to fit properly. Never the less, this is a good thing to look for.

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Last edited by Xhefri on Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Spotting a FAKE FINISH on older Strat Plus or ...
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:05 pm
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I deleted all the troll related comments since Rob deleted his posts.

http://forums.fender.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=95474

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Last edited by Xhefri on Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Spotting a FAKE FINISH on older Strat Plus or ...
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:21 am
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Nice post Xhefri, well done pictorial. As I said before, it took courage, especially here where you are well known and respected.

frontfender, what is your point exactly? :D

If you wish to belittle Xhefri this is the wrong forum, he's a Hero here!

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Post subject: Re: Spotting a FAKE FINISH on older Strat Plus or ...
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:52 am
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Edited:

Deleted. Comment no longer required. Troll gone.

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Last edited by BMW-KTM on Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Spotting a FAKE FINISH on older Strat Plus or ...
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:06 am
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I have this Info to my website http://xhefriguitars.com/page2.html#C17 I deleted all other content pertaining to the troll so we can keep this thread on track.

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Last edited by Xhefri on Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:16 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Spotting a FAKE FINISH on older Strat Plus or ...
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:32 am
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I have to admit that I have sinned.

Back in the late '70s, I noticed all of that excess dried up rubbing compound in the routes of my (then fairly new) Strats. I thought that stuff couldn't be good for the electronics. So I took tooth picks, tooth brush, and cotton swabs to the offending material and cleaned up those body cavities. I know, I know, I ruined the originality of those instruments (because that gunk came from the factory), but I'll die before selling them.

But it points out that other people could have done the same clean up that I did. So just because there's no gunk, it doesn't mean the guitar isn't genuine.

Note: I even found some gunk under some newer (2005 era) Strats' pickguards. My Highway One had sawdust from drilling the pickguard mounting holes mashed between the body and the pickguard. I expected better clean up on a modern US guitar.

The lack of "tan lines" is a pretty good giveaway of a recent refinish, however.

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Post subject: Re: Spotting a FAKE FINISH on older Strat Plus or ...
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:00 pm
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Ok, I just spent a considerable amount of time reading old threads on this, in an effort to understand what has been going on for two years.

WOW! Major drama. I must admit it has been entertaining!

So, Xhefri bought some guitars with faked finishes. He thought they were real and defended them. After he realized he was wrong, he does the right thing and admits his mistake. He goes the extra mile and puts together a lot of information to help keep us all from making the same mistake.

Green Heart/Schweeso/Nowhere Man/Rain man/frontfender just can’t get past the fact he got take in too.

Have I got this right?

Oh, kudos to you Xhefri for your efforts. I still think that blue Strat looks awesome! I would buy one if it was done as a quality re-finish. 8)

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Post subject: Re: Spotting a FAKE FINISH on older Strat Plus or ...
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:15 pm
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omar59 wrote:
Ok, I just spent a considerable amount of time reading old threads on this, in an effort to understand what has been going on for two years.

WOW! Major drama. I must admit it has been entertaining!

So, Xhefri bought some guitars with faked finishes. He thought they were real and defended them. After he realized he was wrong, he does the right thing and admits his mistake. He goes the extra mile and puts together a lot of information to help keep us all from making the same mistake.

Green Heart/Schweeso/Nowhere Man/Rain man/frontfender just can’t get past the fact he got take in too.

Have I got this right?

Oh, kudos to you Xhefri for your efforts. I still think that blue Strat looks awesome! I would buy one if it was done as a quality re-finish. 8)

Your summary is right on target.... I admit it, I made a mistake. As I stated "Want can make us blind."

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Post subject: Re: Spotting a FAKE FINISH on older Strat Plus or ...
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:25 pm
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hi there,
just to be clear:
posting information about whatever finishes is fine.

posting to attack someone or harass someone is not ok. Those posts will be deleted and the account will be banned.

Keep in mind that moderators are human, and this one, as human as a "singer" can be.
yes. that is a small, but truthful disclaimer.

hope you all have a nice weekend.
All the best,
rob

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Post subject: Re: Spotting a FAKE FINISH on older Strat Plus or ...
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:08 pm
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Rob Schwarz-Fender wrote:
hi there,
just to be clear:
posting information about whatever finishes is fine.

posting to attack someone or harass someone is not ok. Those posts will be deleted and the account will be banned.

Keep in mind that moderators are human, and this one, as human as a "singer" can be.
yes. that is a small, but truthful disclaimer.

hope you all have a nice weekend.
All the best,
rob

Nice disclaimer! I was hoping other people would chime in about other identifiers to spot fakes. We see a lot of those on eBay and people asking about fake Chinese and partscaster on this Forum. I too wish everyone a great weekend! I need the time off. :D

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Post subject: Re: Spotting a FAKE FINISH on older Strat Plus or ...
Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:29 am
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orvilleowner wrote:
Note: I even found some gunk under some newer (2005 era) Strats' pickguards. My Highway One had sawdust from drilling the pickguard mounting holes mashed between the body and the pickguard. I expected better clean up on a modern US guitar.

Hi guys: yes, my 2005 Am Series also has plenty of buffing compound dust in the cavities. I neither prize that dust nor mind it: it's still there, because I'm too lazy to clean it all out.

Mind you, my Fender Japan Strat (2010, if memory serves) was much cleaner from the factory. Not spotless, but nearly. So, as has been said, presence or absence of buffing compound is not by itself proof of authenticity. But it's helpful a clue.

BTW: I like Rob's clean-up work on this thread. The mess was removed before I even saw it! :)

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: Spotting a FAKE FINISH on older Strat Plus or ...
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:06 pm
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Ceri wrote:
orvilleowner wrote:
Note: I even found some gunk under some newer (2005 era) Strats' pickguards. My Highway One had sawdust from drilling the pickguard mounting holes mashed between the body and the pickguard. I expected better clean up on a modern US guitar.

Hi guys: yes, my 2005 Am Series also has plenty of buffing compound dust in the cavities. I neither prize that dust nor mind it: it's still there, because I'm too lazy to clean it all out.

Mind you, my Fender Japan Strat (2010, if memory serves) was much cleaner from the factory. Not spotless, but nearly. So, as has been said, presence or absence of buffing compound is not by itself proof of authenticity. But it's helpful a clue.

BTW: I like Rob's clean-up work on this thread. The mess was removed before I even saw it! :)

Cheers - C

Hey Mr. C, just to verify what you arr saying. I just took apart a 1988 Gunmetal Blue Strat. The trem route was CLEAN and the pickup route was pretty messy. But someone most likely cleaned out the trem route when changing strings. So you are right, this is not a positive test each time, but one indicator that could help. Thanks for sharing!

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