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Post subject: Re: Bad American Strat relic job
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:23 am
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I like closet classics but not relics where do I rate on this scale ? :D


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Post subject: Re: Bad American Strat relic job
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:40 am
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I'm baffled that this thread has so much life. Two things come to mind.

1. the believe original person who posted this is long gone.
2. We're arguing an opinion on personnal taste without any facts. In that world, no one is right.


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Post subject: Re: Bad American Strat relic job
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:56 am
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Look here is where I stand. I don't want to take this too much further and I don't care that much about it that it matters who "wins" or "loses" this. And I also apologize if I took it too far or was excessively harsh to any other posters.

Regardless, I look at relics as nothing more then a "tribute". It can be a tribute to Fender (for keeping the same designs for so long that originals still increase in value and have remained desirable for so many decades regardless if they are worn and battered), it can be a tribute to other artists or even local players that use older worn guitars, or it can be a tribute to an era. Or, it can be that some people just like the antiqued look. Some even prefer them so they don't have to worry about road damage and wear. But nonetheless it is a tribute no different then a signature or artist series or even a reissue for that matter. It is just a preferred finish/look of a guitar, not a world view or a way to rank someones character as a whole or their playing abilities.

Now is it "fake"? Obviously the wear is if it was done intentionally just for the look but so what? The term fake implies fraud and is too powerful. Why not just "replica" or "imitation"....which they say is a sincere form of flattery?

Unless someone is selling the guitar as something it is not then it is not "fake"....a relic is a REAL guitar that was made to look old and worn. So what? It is just a freaking piece of wood as I have stated 100 times. I think it is entirely unjust and unfair to insult people who like them. I know I can't change the way some peoples attitudes are and everyone has a right to an "opinion", but as well I have every right to correct a wrong when I see it on the forum.

Now if some can not understand it is WRONG to personally insult people because they have different tastes on how their own piece of wood looks.....I guess I can learn to live with it but it will always be wrong to be that way which in my "opinion" is being nothing short of a judgmental, blanket generalizing jerk. Or it even seems at times that some are jealous of them for some reason. I can't really fathom any other logical reason some would act this way over a freaking preferred guitar finish. If you don't have the talent to properly relic a guitar then save your money like others who want one have and get a custom shop or have an expert do it. And if you don't like them then don't buy or make one. So simple. But just because you don't like it does not make it right to totally disrespect those who do on this forum.

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Post subject: Re: Bad American Strat relic job
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:46 am
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jimmy_james wrote:
I like closet classics but not relics where do I rate on this scale ? :D


To "some" here that would make you a fake and a fraud loser poseur who plays like an 8 year old :roll: It seems anyone who likes anything other then a brand new off the shelf standard model should be tared and feathered because the guitar is a "fake" if anyone including Fender has built and/or finished it to "resemble" an older guitar. You fake :mrgreen: And you are also a fool for spending more money for what you like when you could have bought a cheaper model that does the same thing! You fool, fake loser!! A sucker born every minute..that is why Fender makes relics and signatures and tributes and classics and reissues....it is to nail the suckers....didn't you know this???

Don't be a poseur and instead of buying the closet classic...mortgage your home and buy an original if you want one. You have no right to spend your money on a fake!!!! That guitar was never in any "closet" you sucker....you fell for this????




Kidding of course but I think it made my point. :lol:

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Last edited by ebaysux on Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Bad American Strat relic job
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:00 am
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I think ebaysux needs a hug :D


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Post subject: Re: Bad American Strat relic job
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:03 am
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grainslayer wrote:
I think ebaysux needs a hug :D



Nah the venting is doing me enough good. However there are some on this forum who do need something. Not sure if a hug is enough :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: Bad American Strat relic job
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:15 am
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paris wrote:
I'm baffled that this thread has so much life. Two things come to mind.

1. the believe original person who posted this is long gone.
2. We're arguing an opinion on personnal taste without any facts. In that world, no one is right.


Any "life" I gave this thread was because I strongly felt it was wrong to insult others because of personal preferences regarding their own guitar finish and what they choose to pay for without being called fools and suckers. As far as the original person who posted this I don't blame them for being long gone but that guitar was not a relic in any way shape or form but was damaged due to either a failed attempt at relicing it, or a failed attempt to get a better tone. We may never know why it was done for sure. The good news is, it is only paint and an easy fix. That was not the right guitar to use for a relic and would never be correct just sanding off some of the paint since it was a modern. My advice would have been if not a repaint to just strip it all down to natural, light stain and a light coat of nitro. If there is any truth to that helping the "tone" then that would be the way to go rather then what it seems they attempted. There is much more to a proper relic then what some think who have no authority or experience in building one yet choose to comment out of shear ignorance.

Now as far as arguing about personal taste it should have never got to that point. It is fine to argue about the merits of a relic and why some like/dislike them but it turned into a pissing match and personal insults. And being that I like relics and get paid to build them I of course took extra personal insult and offense to some of these comments. I got bills to pay like everyone else and don't like to be implied as some kind of fraud or loser or poseur or ripoff artist just because myself and some of my customers like a worn older look but can't always afford or find affordable originals. I also have plenty of Fenders that are not relics but some are also reissues and tributes. And some are bone stock. That is a wonderful thing having choices to own what you like without being called names by others. It is no different then calling someone a sucker if they purchase a Harley "bobber" just because it is a new bike that looks old. To me they are great looking and it takes a true craftsman to build it right. But still, not everyone will like it.

For example let's say someone posted a pic of a guitar and someone did not like the color. Well it is okay to post you did not like the color.....but everything changes once someone calls that person an idiot or a fool or a sucker or a loser for liking the color. And what makes matters worse is when you point out that is was wrong to do that and why...they continue to argue and provoke. If I were the moderator of the forum I would have issued a warning for that kind of behavior and for violating the code of conduct by being offensive. Like many members I really like this forum and do hold it to higher standards then some others.

In closing I leave this....


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Post subject: Re: Bad American Strat relic job
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:42 am
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Hey ebaysux, you should start a thread about relics for people who can appreciate this art form. Those who don't could just skip the thread. We could discuss what it takes to create authentic looking finishes, compare the good ones, bad ones and actual ones with play wear. I find it a fascinating subject. I'm sure people would respect your views if it was your own dedicated thread. Antique restorers do it all the time, replacing and matching broken or lost parts. Some reliced guitars are an abomination The CS '54 Heavy relic Strats are a masterpiece. Take it easy.

Goodonya ...Mark.


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Post subject: Re: Bad American Strat relic job
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:56 am
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ebaysux wrote:
If I were the moderator of the forum I would have issued a warning for that kind of behavior and for violating the code of conduct by being offensive. Like many members I really like this forum and do hold it to higher standards then some others.

Hope you don't mind my edit of your post, but I share in principal your last few words. For me, many responses to the fundamental subject line of the post, "Bad American Strat relic job", have gone awry. Rather than expressing an opinion (like or dislike), to the concept or results of a reliced guitar, to personal remarks toward the individuals who express differing views. I like this forum, enjoying the knowledge, experience, and helpfullness, generally provided in most posts. Unfortunately, this topic has regressed, in part, from one absent, a respectful, informative communication between members.

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Post subject: Re: Bad American Strat relic job
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:03 pm
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boxbang wrote:
Hey ebaysux, you should start a thread about relics for people who can appreciate this art form. Those who don't could just skip the thread. We could discuss what it takes to create authentic looking finishes, compare the good ones, bad ones and actual ones with play wear. I find it a fascinating subject. I'm sure people would respect your views if it was your own dedicated thread. Antique restorers do it all the time, replacing and matching broken or lost parts. Some reliced guitars are an abomination The CS '54 Heavy relic Strats are a masterpiece. Take it easy.

Goodonya ...Mark.


I thought about that actually but was going to wait until I was further along with a 62 heavy relic I am working on as my personal keeper. It is the guitar I always wanted but can not find one anywhere near what I am willing to pay so am doing the next best thing and building a replica. There is so much more to this then most would imagine....to make this look right it is more then a blow torch, cigarette burns and slapping it with a file as "someone" suggested LOL. It is totally an art form and takes serious skill and research..otherwise, correct as you said it would be a total abomination. And the fact that so many become abominations is only more proof that it takes a degree of skill and craftsmanship to do it right. Otherwise there is no way on earth Fender and others would be getting the prices they are asking.

As well if there was not a demand...why would Fender or anyone else for that matter even do it? Sadly, those who do not understand it...choose to mock. Or they call it a "fad" even though it has only been growing in popularity for decades :roll:

I might even request the forum to make relics a separate topic granted they do have a custom shop topic already which would be a good place to start it for now. However I am certainly not building relics using custom shop bodies and necks but reissue parts which is why there should be a separate topic....or maybe something like "owner customs and relics" or similar.

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Last edited by ebaysux on Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Bad American Strat relic job
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:08 pm
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Lenny1716 wrote:
ebaysux wrote:
If I were the moderator of the forum I would have issued a warning for that kind of behavior and for violating the code of conduct by being offensive. Like many members I really like this forum and do hold it to higher standards then some others.

Hope you don't mind my edit of your post, but I share in principal your last few words. For me, many responses to the fundamental subject line of the post, "Bad American Strat relic job", have gone awry. Rather than expressing an opinion (like or dislike), to the concept or results of a reliced guitar, to personal remarks toward the individuals who express differing views. I like this forum, enjoying the knowledge, experience, and helpfullness, generally provided in most posts. Unfortunately, this topic has regressed, in part, from one absent, a respectful, informative communication between members.


No problem. Yeah it seems some saw the title "Bad American Strat relic job" and used it as a soap box to express their opinion that anyone who buys or likes a relic is a moron. When you really look at the guitar in this post it has nothing to do with a relic. There are good relics, bad relics, and damage. All 3 are totally different issues but NEVER on this forum should members personally insult or offend other members due to their personal tastes. That is not the kind of "opinions" that can ever be considered respectful.

For example....this is a "good" relic...
Image

This is a "bad" relic...
Image


And this is "damage"...
Image

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Post subject: Re: Bad American Strat relic job
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:12 pm
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Convenient that you benefit financially from a positive opinion on relics.

My opinion is that all three of the photos in your post above represent damage.

By implying that I don't "understand the art" you seek to negate my opinion.

My opinion remains that this so-called art is a sham.

I wonder, when you charge for a standard cigarette burn to a headstock, do you charge more for for a headstock burn from a filterless cigarette? Or maybe do you charge the most when you burn a headstock with a cigarette you've rolled yourself?

Just curious...


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Post subject: Re: Bad American Strat relic job
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:23 pm
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Geckochameleon wrote:
Convenient that you benefit financially from a positive opinion on relics.

My opinion is that all three of the photos in your post above represent damage.

By implying that I don't "understand the art" you seek to negate my opinion.

My opinion remains that this so-called art is a sham.

I wonder, when you charge for a standard cigarette burn to a headstock, do you charge more for for a headstock burn from a filterless cigarette? Or maybe do you charge the most when you burn a headstock with a cigarette you've rolled yourself?

Just curious...


You just don't know when to quit do you? My ONLY complaint about you is that you are personally insulting others because they have different tastes then you.

As far as what I make money from is a separate issue. I do not sell any guitars from this forum. And I am FAR from the only person who makes money from relics.

And I am not "implying" you don't understand the art but know this for a FACT based on your opinionated views and totally ignorant comments.

If you want to post that what others love is a sham so be it. I just don't care anymore and said all I have to say. My suggestion to you is stop being a schmuck to other members on this forum and don't buy any relics if you don't like them.

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Post subject: Re: Bad American Strat relic job
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:29 pm
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Look, I was in NO WAY trying to be offensive. It was simple curiosity.

Like, if I asked you to make me a relic and in doing so, drop the guitar down a flight of steps to simulate damage over time...

...would I pay by the step, or is there a per-staircase price?


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Post subject: Re: Bad American Strat relic job
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:30 pm
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grainslayer wrote:
I think ebaysux needs a hug :D



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