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Post subject: Mid-boost opinion
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:57 am
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I just bought a 2000 Eric Clapton Blackie that had been out of it's case twice back in 2001, then set aside (this is verified, I bought it from my ex-wife and she bought it new). I re-strung and put a new battery in. The tone of the guitar is exceptionally nice, but it never cleans up regardless of tone and booster settings. With the booster engaged fully, it's as if I turned on my distortion pedal or was running full amp distortion. With it rolled off, it breaks up based on picking intensity, but it never plays fully clean. On my EMG SA guitars, this is what happens if the battery is dead.

I contacted Lace and they pointed me to a replacement mid-boost made by Fender. Has anyone else had one fail and were these the symptoms. Alternatively, is this how the guitar is suppose to act. I could imagine that for a pure blues gig, it would be possibly appropriate.


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Post subject: Re: Mid-boost opinion
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:35 am
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Not sure what amp you are using, but you may need to turn down your volume knob on the guitar. My Clapton typically borders on break up, but I can clean it up with the volume.

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Post subject: Re: Mid-boost opinion
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:35 am
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Doubled down.

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Post subject: Re: Mid-boost opinion
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:25 am
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Drew365 wrote:
Not sure what amp you are using, but you may need to turn down your volume knob on the guitar. My Clapton typically borders on break up, but I can clean it up with the volume.


I am using a Blackstar HT Soloist 60 and alternatively a Super Six Reverb. I use both with low levels (e.g., 1/4 volume on master of the Blackstar, on the super six, I keep master and channel in the realm of clean only). Yes, I can stop the break up by dropping back to 3/4 on the guitar volume. I didn't think of that, because I normally leave volume and tones to full on other guitars except my active EQ instruments or if I'm trying for muddy jazz sound.

So it really is supposed to have the level of distortion it gets? On yours, do you find if you crank the mid-boost all the way, the distortion level is as high or higher than your amp or pedal distortion, and I get weird overtones on the highs. Full boost, with tone set to detent, and volume full, is a fuzz-box on this guitar. Is that normal? I had read that people think the mid-boost provides a humbucker sound, but I just get overdrive/distortion.

I have another strat with EMG SAs and EMG booster, it provides a clean full body sound when the boost is rolled on, and only sounds like this if the battery is going dead. The Blackie (Lace Sensor type) is odd because it actually sounds better than any other guitar I have, but is not offering that tone dynamically without distortion. If the mid-boost needed replacement, that would explain it.

But thanks, rolling off the volume and keeping the boost low seems to a good workaround to enjoy an otherwise exceptional instrument.


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Post subject: Re: Mid-boost opinion
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:49 am
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Funny me, I always thought the whole purpose of the 'boost' circuits is to give distortion...


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Post subject: Re: Mid-boost opinion
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:09 am
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jmattis wrote:
Funny me, I always thought the whole purpose of the 'boost' circuits is to give distortion...


+1

To a lesser extent, I also thought that's what the Tone knobs on the Amp were for as well...

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: Mid-boost opinion
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:23 am
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jmattis wrote:
Funny me, I always thought the whole purpose of the 'boost' circuits is to give distortion...


Overdriving it and heating it up yes, but this is extreme distortion. You wouldn't need to have any other distortion unit and still do metal with it. But it also has the weird overtones that make it sound like poor distortion. I can't imagine using the boost knob cranked up very high because the sound is frankly bad, and that is on an instrument that sounds stellar when it's less pronounced. I just wanted to determine if that is the norm or I should get the Fender replacement package. It seems an appropriate query and I wouldn't know where else to ask.


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Post subject: Re: Mid-boost opinion
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:04 pm
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Sorry, my little joke seems to have backfired.

Let's try to reconsile: before you replace any parts, compare it to another Strat with a mid boost circuit. Doesn't have to be an EC signature, many Strats have been 'upgraded' with the boost. (I'm no fan myself, thus the ' marks)
As a general remark, any control unit does not have to be dimed all the time. If you get sounds you like at 1, keep it there.


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Post subject: Re: Mid-boost opinion
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:42 pm
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jmattis wrote:
Sorry, my little joke seems to have backfired.

Let's try to reconsile: before you replace any parts, compare it to another Strat with a mid boost circuit. Doesn't have to be an EC signature, many Strats have been 'upgraded' with the boost. (I'm no fan myself, thus the ' marks)
As a general remark, any control unit does not have to be dimed all the time. If you get sounds you like at 1, keep it there.


Naw, my bad, I'm just jaded about the net, I take care of forums for a living, tend to be on the hairy edge of postal over-sensitivity as a result :oops:

Finding one will be tough where I live, but that's a good idea, maybe I'll head to the city if I can find a shop that has one with boost for sale.

It's not that I don't like distortion when actually playing, but right now, I'm just practicing patterns and scales (couple hours a day), not actually playing nor gigging. This has a real chime and is hands down the fastest guitar I have out of a bunch of nice instruments, so it's very rewarding to practice with. In practicing, I try to keep it clean to gauge accuracy and speed. Boost off and volume back a hair seems to make #2 and #4 positions sing beautifully in a tone I can't duplicate on any other guitar I have. Love the guitar, but you may be right, the booster may not be that important in what it does well.

Thank you all for the responses.


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Post subject: Re: Mid-boost opinion
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:01 pm
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I have a feeling something is wrong with it. It should not be breaking up at all, especially when it is rolled off. My bet is that it is a defective mid-boost board as suggested. The fact that it sounds fine with it off kind of confirms it is not a bad pup or something else.

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Post subject: Re: Mid-boost opinion
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:30 pm
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ebaysux wrote:
I have a feeling something is wrong with it. It should not be breaking up at all, especially when it is rolled off. My bet is that it is a defective mid-boost board as suggested. The fact that it sounds fine with it off kind of confirms it is not a bad pup or something else.


Lace had provided a dealer source for new boost kits from Fender just in case I determined it was bad, so I'll buy one. Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: Mid-boost opinion
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:26 pm
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eagletree wrote:
jmattis wrote:
Funny me, I always thought the whole purpose of the 'boost' circuits is to give distortion...


Overdriving it and heating it up yes, but this is extreme distortion. You wouldn't need to have any other distortion unit and still do metal with it. ...

That's not normal, your description seems like the gain for your part is set too high for some reason. The one I had still needed a pedal if I wanted to play metal.


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Post subject: Re: Mid-boost opinion
Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:38 am
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eagletree wrote:
With it rolled off, it breaks up based on picking intensity, but it never plays fully clean

And then again, this does sound about normal for a midboost...

That's why I suggested comparing before replacing... :wink:


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Post subject: Re: Mid-boost opinion
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:21 am
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eagletree wrote:
I have another strat with EMG SAs and EMG booster, it provides a clean full body sound when the boost is rolled on, and only sounds like this if the battery is going dead. The Blackie (Lace Sensor type) is odd because it actually sounds better than any other guitar I have, but is not offering that tone dynamically without distortion. If the mid-boost needed replacement, that would explain it.

Some additional thoughts. I've owned three Claptons. All with Laces. Still have two. The only time I've had the kind of breakup you describe is going through a smaller amp that can't handle the gain level of a mid-boost. Bear in mind that Clapton's intent with this circuitry was to have the voice of a Les Paul in a Stratocaster. Personally, that's a tall order. My Les Paul blows the windows out when I've substituted it into the same signal chain I set my Clapton up with. With respect to my experience with both types of circuitry, when the battery in the EC guitar begins to fail, the gain falls off when attempting to increase it. Comparing the EMG and Fender circuits is like apples and oranges. Last time I spoke to an EMG tech about that I was told that the gain in the DG-20 was 12db. Fender's is 25. Keep us posted on this.

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Post subject: Re: Mid-boost opinion
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:18 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
Last time I spoke to an EMG tech about that I was told that the gain in the DG-20 was 12db. Fender's is 25.


Not true.

The SPC's gain level is 6dB with the peak frequency being approx. at 1300Hz, not 12dB.

There's a misinformation from the person you talked with.

The MDX has 25dB of gain at 500Hz.

With a pair of resistors it could be easily reduced to 12dB - which is the same amount of gain you might expect from the original Elite preamp.


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