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Post subject: Re: Strat middle coil height
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:52 am
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ebaysux wrote:
Live I find them too darned heavy.


+1

I played a Paul exclusively for over three decades until health issues mandated a lighter guitar......

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Post subject: Re: Strat middle coil height
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:40 pm
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ebaysux wrote:
Well considering I did not ask you the question that is a still quite an impressive list. Not exactly "a zillion" or "endless"... but most impressive nonetheless. Not sure if it made my point or hurt it though...or even what the intention was, but only a handful of those players (if that and I am being generous) do I relate to a Les Paul. Oh and you forgot to mention me. I have also played them.... but limited to recordings. Live I find them too darned heavy.

Cool story, but kind of off topic regarding the height of the middle pickup on a strat. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Strat middle coil height
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:29 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
Cool story, but kind of off topic regarding the height of the middle pickup on a strat. :wink:


I agree but to my defense I was responding to this comment...


Quote:
Retroverbial wrote:
ebaysux wrote:
Now add to that a zillion people play Les Pauls...but how many can you name?


Gee, this seems like a no-brainer......

Eric Clapton
Joseph Walsh
Leslie West
Duane Allman
Jimmy Page
Gary Richrath
Neil Schon
Martin Barre
Pete Townsend
Phil Keaggy
Carlos Santana
Tom Johnston
Joe Perry
Tom Scholz
Keith Richards
William Gibbons
Rick Neilsen
Ronnie Montrose
Gary Rossington
Slash

(the list is near-endless)

:mrgreen:

Arjay



Now granted I could have just came back with this....

Many bands still use Fender guitars today. Some notable Fender players, both past and present, include Jeff Beck, Ritchie Blackmore, Roy Buchanan, Eric Clapton, David Gilmour, Albert Collins, Steve Cropper, Mike Dirnt, Eric Johnson, Kurt Cobain, Bob Dylan, Tinsley Ellis, John Frusciante, Rory Gallagher, Danny Gatton, Buddy Guy, George Harrison, Jimi Hendrix, Doyle Holly, Mark Hoppus, Ernie Isley, Waylon Jennings, Mark Knopfler, Yngwie Malmsteen, Johnny Marr, Hank Marvin, John Mayer, Robert Cray, Paul McCartney, Duff Mckagan, Tom Morello, Dave Murray, Buck Owens, Brad Paisley, Rick Parfitt, Prince, Tom Principato, Don Rich, Keith Richards, Jim Root, Francis Rossi, Kenny Wayne Shepherd, The Bad Dolphins, Lucas Sierra, Robert_Smith_(musician), Webb Wilder, Bruce Springsteen, Pete Townshend, Robin Trower, Keith Urban, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Brian Wilson and many others....


But I didn't :mrgreen:


Getting back to the middle pup I say if you don't use it anyhow then by all means lower it, remove it, burn it, pee on it, throw it into the lion pit at the zoo for all I care....no biggie to me. But I for one love the sound of the 2 and 4 position which is a gift from Strat requiring that middle pup. The middle pup is an inanimate object so it is not technically "in the way" if you learn how to play around it and not only that....be able to shape your tone without touching a single knob. Win, win...win.

That is all 8)

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Post subject: Re: Strat middle coil height
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:26 am
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ebaysux wrote:
But I for one love the sound of the 2 and 4 position which is a gift from Strat requiring that middle pup.


Absotively, posilutely, +1000!

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Strat middle coil height
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:43 am
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In my mind "quack" is the defining characteristic of the Stratocaster. The down side of that is that it is also the main reason (I find) that some people dislike the Strat. Yes, I know, hard to believe but there ARE people out there who do not like Strats ... poor, miserable, wretched souls.

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Post subject: Re: Strat middle coil height
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:39 am
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I am 50 years old and have been playing for most of my life, I love the sound of a Strat especially positions 2 & 4.

But...... I am one of those people that struggles to play a Strat, the middle pickup does on occasion get in the way of my more than likely poor technique and the volume control feels too close to the bridge pickup for me as well.

Yet I am still trying to adapt to a Strat due to the awesome tones! But I don't think I will ever give up my Les Pauls as they just feel like old friends to me. The goal is to play both equally well. :D


Last edited by Strat Dad on Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Strat middle coil height
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:39 am
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On my Strat I have no problems with the middle pick up. On my Epiphone Nighthawk, the middle pick up is always in the way.

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Post subject: Re: Strat middle coil height
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:24 pm
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Strat Dad wrote:
I am 50 years old and have been playing for most of my life, I love the sound of a Strat especially positions 2 & 4.

But...... I am one of those people that struggles to play a Strat, the middle pickup does on occasion get in the way of my more than likely poor technique and the volume control feels too close to the bridge pickup for me as well.

Yet I am still trying to adapt to a Strat due to the awesome tones! But I don't think I will ever give up my Les Pauls as they just feel like old friends to me. The goal is to play both equally well. :D


I also find myself tapping the middle pup with the pick, which is something I'm trying to work out and will.
On the other hand, I think the volume control by the bridge pup, where I can adjust it with my pinky, is the most ingenius feature of a Strat. I played with two volume, two tone controls for 45 years, and I now prefer one master volume close to the bridge pup.

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Post subject: Re: Strat middle coil height
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:16 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
In my mind "quack" is the defining characteristic of the Stratocaster. The down side of that is that it is also the main reason (I find) that some people dislike the Strat. Yes, I know, hard to believe but there ARE people out there who do not like Strats ... poor, miserable, wretched souls.


Well if they don't like the quack or Strats then the least of their worries will be the height of the middle pup. I would just find it hard to believe out of the list of great guitar players who have played Strats that any human on earth could not pick at least one where they like the sound. Granted if they are a death metal head they probably only like the sound of something like this...

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Post subject: Re: Strat middle coil height
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:23 pm
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Thank you for your comprehensive answer, ebaysux. :)

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Post subject: Re: Strat middle coil height
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:31 pm
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I looked up "Tone Monster" - Turs out there's a picture of Jeff Beck as an example. I have to agree. He plays everywhere the strings are.


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Post subject: Re: Strat middle coil height
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:14 pm
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ebaysux wrote:
Or..for another example....watch this entire vid and keep an eye on where he plays-(all over -sometimes by the neck, sometimes by the bridge or anywhere in between depending on the tone he wants)....and this guy is certainly a fine example of a tone monster that uses a 3 pickup Strat. I can't imagine he would ever be a pansy and remove the middle pickup because it is "in the way" of his playing. Watch and learn kids....watch and learn.....




I don't only play Strats, although my Strat has been my number 1 guitar since 1991.
As a guitar player I find great tones in various guitar types and pup types and that requires being flexible and adaptable with picking technique.
I pick in any area that gives me the tone and feel that I'm after.
For me, on a Strat it's a matter of where the saddle is in relation to the middle pup such that the middle pup tends to get in the way at times.
Even though the middle pup does at times "get in the way", I've learned ways to compensate for it, other's simply give up.

It is precisely because of tone that I like to pick at the very position where the middle pup is. For certain things I like the tone when picking right there, and that's why I brought it up.
It's obvious that one can pick at a different location, but doing so changes the tone and feel at the location where the middle pup is. So if one likes the tone when picking at that point, then one has to alter something. For me, it's lowering the middle pup.
No need to sacrifice tone by moving to a different position, when you can just lower that pup.

Lowering, not removing, the middle pup gives me better access when I'm using the bridge or neck pup. When I want to use the middle pup only I still can.
For position 2 and 4 it still sounds great even with a lowered mid pup.
I use the middle position/#3 the least as it's my least used/favored tone from my Strat.
I love all the other 4 positions I use them for their various tones.
For me the middle pup in a Strat isn't the "iconic" Strat tone, but I also understand that different players see and hear it differently, and I respect that.
Respect for a players preferences, that's a good thing. :)

That's a great thing about a Strat, all the wonderful tonal variations it offers a player.
And every player can choose whatever makes them happy regardless of anyone telling others that they don't know tone or how to play.
Just because the middle pup can be used by itself doesn't mean that every player has to like it's tone, or any of the 5 positions for that matter.
Criticizing a player, or lowering ones previous appreciation for a player because they don't want to use all 5 positions, is a rather odd way to look at and judge a player.

If a player wants to lower any pup or remove any pup that is their choice.
What matters is the music one makes with their choices.
I'd rather listen to a great player using just one pup, then to listen to a mediocre player dancing around with the pup selector. :)
But that's just me, ymmv.


Last edited by Rverb on Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Strat middle coil height
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:54 pm
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dbl


Last edited by Rverb on Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Strat middle coil height
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:13 pm
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ebaysux wrote:
BMW-KTM wrote:
orvilleowner wrote:
IIRC, Blackmore and Malmsteen keep their middle pickups very low to be out of the way.

And eventually Blackmore did away with his middle pickups.

Wow.
I never heard that about Blackmore before.
Kind of tarnishes my impression of him.

That sucks.
:cry:


I agree..but only to a point. I am disappointed to a degree that he would use a strat and find the middle pup in they way so decided to eliminate it...but if he never used it anyhow it is not a big deal. He earned his spot in rock. However it is not exactly like Blackmore is known to be a tone monster as compared to let's say SRV or Robert Cray....again, to each his own. I just try my best to influence others to not always take the easy way out and limit themselves, especially if you choose to play such a tonally versatile guitar as a strat.


Adjusting a guitar to one's liking is not an "easy way out".
Is adjusting the action to a comfortable position for what you want to do with it an
"easy way out"? Some prefer a very low action for what and how the play, yet that same set up may not be so great for another player.
I find that action that is really low may make it easier for faster single note playing, but it doesn't give good feel or tone for big bends.
Many if not most slide players like high action for getting the best tone and easier playability.


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Post subject: Re: Strat middle coil height
Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:50 pm
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Well I hope no one was insulted by my suggestion. Of course any player has the right to adjust the guitar and play it any way that suits them. I just feel it is good to see another side where you can get the full benefit of the 3 pup setup and as well learn a technique that can expand your sound. On my last triple humbucker strat I did not notice the middle pup in my way but on the next one I build I will pay specific attention when I play it and see if it ever gets in the way or if the way I play just innately causes me to move my picking and strumming all over. I know on my practice guitar that sleeps with me is a Strat with an HSS setup, all the coils are the same height, far from flush and I never noticed any of the pups got in the way of playing at all.

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