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Post subject: Lead Gutiar Advice
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:37 am
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Ok, I know it's the Strat forum, but as a Strat player I think other Strat players are probably the best guitar players in the world (at least the smartest).

I've been playing guitar for about 12 years now and am a VERY solid rhythm player. Bur for some reason, just never learned much in the way of playing lead.

What has everyone here done to learn lead? I don't have time or the budget for private lessons at the moment, but I would love suggestions on books you've found very useful, things to learn first (theory such as which scales, arpeggios, where to find great licks, how to combine licks, etc), what order to learn the theory (learn x scale first, then move to arpeggios, then learn these licks), web links, tips & tricks, etc.

I'm looking to play blues and rock lead and maybe a little country. I want to bend a note and make it cry/scream - NOT looking to be a Van Halen or Vai type of speed player. Think Clapton, SRV, Hendrix, modern alternative rock, etc.

I have a pretty good grasp on the blues scale (minor pentatonic with the blue notes) all the way up and down the neck, but could use some advice on how to "mix" the major and minor pentatonics when playing blues, breaking out of the scale pattern so you don't sound like you're playing a scale all the time, how to move your lead around when the chords change during the progression, etc.

Thanks for any input - I know with all these great Strat players I should be able to get some AWESOME advice!


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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:49 am
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If you can read music your probably way ahead of most here; I sure can't and TAB notation is very technial as well.
SCALES , SCALES, SCALES!!!
Learn scales; you'll start to see where the chords are "inside" the scales. Chords are a group of notes that sound pleasing (hopefully) together; those notes are part of a scale; the mastery of scales in probably a "JOURNEY" in your playing more than an "END" meaning you'll never stop learning what notes can be used when; having a good knowledge of that is what distingushes some from others.
I know this but still stuggle with learning scales from a combination of desire to learn, laziness, and the time too do it.
It's tough having the "whys" about why I don't play as well as I wished and not the determination and time to do it.


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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:00 am
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dna9656 wrote:
If you can read music your probably way ahead of most here; I sure can't and TAB notation is very technial as well.
SCALES , SCALES, SCALES!!!
Learn scales; you'll start to see where the chords are "inside" the scales. Chords are a group of notes that sound pleasing (hopefully) together; those notes are part of a scale; the mastery of scales in probably a "JOURNEY" in your playing more than an "END" meaning you'll never stop learning what notes can be used when; having a good knowledge of that is what distingushes some from others.
I know this but still stuggle with learning scales from a combination of desire to learn, laziness, and the time too do it.
It's tough having the "whys" about why I don't play as well as I wished and not the determination and time to do it.


Man I couldn't agree more I grew up in a small town with no music store in a time of no interenet and it was extremly hard to get any help... but the first real help and major step was putting chords notes and scales togther and just building on that

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Last edited by stephenr66 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Lead Gutiar Advice
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:05 am
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jcrump wrote:
Ok, I know it's the Strat forum, but as a Strat player I think other Strat players are probably the best guitar players in the world (at least the smartest).

I've been playing guitar for about 12 years now and am a VERY solid rhythm player. Bur for some reason, just never learned much in the way of playing lead.

What has everyone here done to learn lead? I don't have time or the budget for private lessons at the moment, but I would love suggestions on books you've found very useful, things to learn first (theory such as which scales, arpeggios, where to find great licks, how to combine licks, etc), what order to learn the theory (learn x scale first, then move to arpeggios, then learn these licks), web links, tips & tricks, etc.

I'm looking to play blues and rock lead and maybe a little country. I want to bend a note and make it cry/scream - NOT looking to be a Van Halen or Vai type of speed player. Think Clapton, SRV, Hendrix, modern alternative rock, etc.

I have a pretty good grasp on the blues scale (minor pentatonic with the blue notes) all the way up and down the neck, but could use some advice on how to "mix" the major and minor pentatonics when playing blues, breaking out of the scale pattern so you don't sound like you're playing a scale all the time, how to move your lead around when the chords change during the progression, etc.

Thanks for any input - I know with all these great Strat players I should be able to get some AWESOME advice!

dont feel bad i'v been playing 35 years i'm a very solid
lead player but my rhythm well. BB KING the same way
horible rhythm player.


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Post subject: Re: Lead Gutiar Advice
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:07 am
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jcrump wrote:
Ok, I know it's the Strat forum, but as a Strat player I think other Strat players are probably the best guitar players in the world (at least the smartest).


That's true!

First thing: probably the fault with some of us is that we spend all our time fiddling with lead lines, and are not nearly solid enough at rhythm. If you are the opposite, that ain't no bad thing. Good rhythm players are a real asset.

Still, some ideas. One: on another thread (sorry, can't find it) a guitar teacher was recommending singing your guitar line. When you can play what you can sing, simultaneously, things are going in the right direction.

Two: learning another player's licks, note for note, is a good exercise. First number I ever learned was Sultans of Swing: as good a place to start as any, I'd have thought - it's full of lead licks, easy and a bit more challenging, it is musical, the tone is clean so you can hear what's going on, and it gets you a short distance outside the pentatonic box before you've even got stuck in there. There's even training DVDs to take you through it slowly.

Whatever: the point of forcing yourself to learn a track NOTE FOR NOTE is that you can't dodge the bits you find a little tricky. Make yourself go on till you've nailed it.

My last suggestion is think about your playing when you are away from the instrument. On a long walk, or whatever. Brian May suggested this: he said that if you try to compose on the guitar your fingers just fall into their familiar patterns, and you are stuck in the same-old-same-old. Music comes from your head, then out through your fingers.

Good luck!


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Post subject: Re: Lead Gutiar Advice
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:11 am
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Ceri wrote:
jcrump wrote:
Ok, I know it's the Strat forum, but as a Strat player I think other Strat players are probably the best guitar players in the world (at least the smartest).


That's true!

First thing: probably the fault with some of us is that we spend all our time fiddling with lead lines, and are not nearly solid enough at rhythm. If you are the opposite, that ain't no bad thing. Good rhythm players are a real asset.

Still, some ideas. One: on another thread (sorry, can't find it) a guitar teacher was recommending singing your guitar line. When you can play what you can sing, simultaneously, things are going in the right direction.

Two: learning another player's licks, note for note, is a good exercise. First number I ever learned was Sultans of Swing: as good a place to start as any, I'd have thought - it's full of lead licks, easy and a bit more challenging, it is musical, the tone is clean so you can hear what's going on, and it gets you a short distance outside the pentatonic box before you've even got stuck in there. There's even training DVDs to take you through it slowly.

Whatever: the point of forcing yourself to learn a track NOTE FOR NOTE is that you can't dodge the bits you find a little tricky. Make yourself go on till you've nailed it.

My last suggestion is think about your playing when you are away from the instrument. On a long walk, or whatever. Brian May suggested this: he said that if you try to compose on the guitar your fingers just fall into their familiar patterns, and you are stuck in the same-old-same-old. Music comes from your head, then out through your fingers.

Good luck!

great advice i have learnd your
never to old to stop learning and
playing guitar is just that.


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:20 am
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Well your in the right direction. I'm no guitar teacher, lack correct terms, and i don't have much experience compared to these older guys but here's a few tips.

You know your minor pentatonic (with blues notes) which is at the base of most straight up blues and rock. good.
Now for mixing up, geez :)

I learned how to really get into lead from playing with amazing lead players. Just jamming alot and trying to understand and then it clicked.
I know you mentioned you don't have much time but it's a learning process. It's practice, it's playing, etc... You have to really fall into it.

Learning a bit of theory is really useful to connect everything together but you also want to step out of that here and there.
Master your fretboard first (know what your playing, where your going) by not only knowing basic scales but understanding them (where's your root, triads, seventh, whatever else). Passing tones can add a little life here and there to. Basically play any notes outside your *box* but come back to your notes in your scale.

One other way to spice things up is to learn your modes. You've been playing for a bit so you probebly have a good ear making it a bit easier. Now modes are a nice way to step out but hard to apply. You can play horizontaly (stay in the same scale/key) but that gets old (until you can really know the fret board and mix them up well!).

A mode i like for rock/bluesy stuff is the Natural minor (Aeolian) scale. It goes great with minor triad (root, third and fifth notes in the scale) and minor 7th. Now playing modes in a vertical fashion (changing scale *mode* for every schord) is really hard. I'm still working on it but it really expands your horizon. Try looking for info on it on google.

An other thing is learning arpeggios. You can see them as *licks*. There basically broken up chords played one note at a time. They add that melodic feel.

Whatever you do, try understanding what your doing a bit. I hate theory but when i see the result it's really amazing. I'm lucky enough to have alot of free time (i'm in university) and visit a REAL guitar teacher that i jam and talk with every week. Learn pentatonics inside and out if you want to play easy lead (that will sound amazing, don't get me wrong). But expanding your mindset always helps giving you that edge.

Here are a few sites i use:

Scales, chords, arpeggios.... what more can a guitar player ask for!
http://gosk.com/

Check out the lick and chops section... dedicated to lead guitar
http://www.myguitarsolo.com

p!


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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:20 am
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I would highly recommend ordering the book PlaneTalk by Kirk Leorange. Google it.
Like dna9656 said about the chords in the scales. This book is all about how to easily find them on the fretboard. It takes on a "chord of the moment" approach so you don't sound like your playing scales.


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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:25 am
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Spend some time just listening to the phrasing of some different guitar players.
I recommend listening to Peter Frampton. He is one of the better guitar players at phrasing.

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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:55 pm
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Search youtube for some lessons by Joe Satriani. If you can find where he demonstrates scales and modes it will help you understand the approach a lead guitarist might take...
I like the way he puts it as he plays through the modes and stating them out loud as an example. He gives you a sense of how modes and scales can change the feel of the music or solo being played. :twisted:

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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:26 pm
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A few suggestions of things I use:

1. Singing a line or phrase - this is huge, especially because of the muscle memory we develop playing our favorite lines and riffs. This aids in not falling into the same rut.

2. Record a chord progression and then just practice playing against it, try different scales and modes and whatever comes to mind.

3. Play & jam as much as possible.

4. Listen to different styles of music. Jazz & bluegrass are not my favorites but can these people rip!

5. Practice "dry" meaning leave the effects off except for what it takes to produce a nice fat tone - that way you don't have effects masking your technique.

Happy jamming!
:D

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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:03 pm
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Very good advice in this thread. I'll second the poster who recommended thinking about your playing when away from your instrument. I practice this almost as a technique in itself and it helps.

Visualize yourself playing. Visualize the things you want to do differently the next time you play, whether it's using a lighter pick attack, bending more carefully, whatever.

Another exercise is to visualize the guitar neck and picture chord shapes and scale fingerings. Especially if you're working on memorizing a new scale or something this can be helpful. Picture that scale pattern in different positions on the neck and tell yourself, now the root note is B (or whatever).


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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:10 pm
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I consider myself a crappy lead player, but I'll give out advice anyway.

First of all....whatever lead you're doing, ground it in a melody or hook. ie, give 'em something memorable during the lead.

Second of all: Scales were mentioned. Now, here's a bit more of skinny: You have 2 basic types of pentatonic, 5-tone scales: Major and Minor. They are used a lot in blues. You can typically add a 4th step for a "blue note". What I've also discovered is that (for personal playing tastes) aeolian modes and dorian modes work well to embellish a pentatonic minor, and major and mixolydian scales work well in a major. A phrygian mode will give you either a spanish or even middle eastern feel depending on how it's employed.

Third: Technique is important, and flash is cool, but too much of it can bore the people you're supposed to be entertaining very quickly. I look at it this way: How many times have you gone to a guitar store and you spotted some guy doing these technically difficult sweep arpeggios and blinding speed before you got bored with it? Flash should be used sparingly.

Fourth: Never fall so much into leads that you lose the rhythm sense in the song, ie, don't go so far off the deep end that you overshoot the chords.

I think great segueway players to listen to in terms of emulating are guys like Tony Iommi and Jimmy Page for single note riffs, and then guys like Chuck Berry and Scotty Moore for rhythmic leads. (Johnny B. Goode is such an awesome lead!)

Good luck...


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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:34 pm
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I saw Satriani as a model but I'm not sure that's the best place to start. I'd listen to Gilmour's solo's. Simple, melodic, elegant and most importantly, easy to learn. Walk, then run.

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Post subject: Re: Lead Gutiar Advice
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:41 pm
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For me to address your question I would first have to understand what you see as playing 'lead guitar'. When I came up in this, a rock band was ideally drums, bass, rhythm guitar, 'lead' guitar. Keyboard, and tenor sax often filled out the unit. "Lead guitar' played melody notes, solos, and fills to complement the vocal and could be the main voice on istrumentals. So, drawing an example from early rock of my vintage compare vocal/instrumentalist like Chuck Berry and Buddy Holly, with strictly instrumentalists like Link Wray, Duane Eddy, or The Ventures, Creative soloing is a blend of virtuosity and creativity with the inspiration of a particular song form.

Doc


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