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Post subject: My 1985 Japanese Stratocaster - Tremelo/Pickup Questions
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:44 am
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Howdy, everyone. Before there is a chorused groan, I assure you I've been lurking the forums here for a while to essentially "RTFM" before I open my pie-hole. The cliff's notes version of my story is that I bought my 1985 Made in Japan Stratocaster new back in 1985. I was in 6th or 7th grade and worked all summer to save up for it along with a little peavey amp. I recently dug the guitar out of storage and have been attempting to spruce it up:

Image
Image

So through my research, I've found that I apparently have a Schaller "Type I" tremelo, which I can never remember being usable in terms of the guitar actually staying in tune if you dared touch the whammy bar. The guitar as it is today is no different.

Which leads me to question one:

  • Is this tremelo truly that horrible, or has it just never been set up properly?
It seems that the websites singing its praises are also trying to sell me parts or service for the thing, so I'd like to get feedback from those with personal experience on them.

That, in turn, leads me to question two:
  • If the Schaller Type I does indeed just suck, have any of you tried the Kahler retrofit kit that allows you to install a
    Kahler 7300 or The Kahler 7330?
  • What would be the difference between these two tremelos being used on a conversion since the "routing" has already been done from the factory on my strat to acommodate the existing Schaller?


Last edited by Musical Mediocrity on Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: My 1985 Japanese Stratocaster - Tremelo/Pickup Questions
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:44 am
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And finally:
  • As I understand it, this is a "Contemporary Stratocaster, Made in Japan." Were the pickups on these things garbage? I seem to have a somewhat rare iteration of these guitars with HSS configuration (listed as the "unknown" model number on the Wikipedia Page). I know I always got lots of ground hum and plan to install a shielding kit in an attempt to quiet things down.
Being the first guitar I ever owned, I'll never sell the thing. I'd just like to make it into a really great player.

Any tips or additional feedback greatly appreciated...


Craig


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Post subject: Re: My 1985 Japanese Stratocaster - Tremelo/Pickup Questions
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:40 am
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There hopefully will be better experts answering, but here's a start:

On the System 1 tremolo, check this Stratconnection page
BTW, I have some doubts what that tremolo is, see Contemporary Strats page
You seem to have either model 27-5700 or 27-4100, thus guessing System II or III trem - can't tell by your pic.

On the pickups: IMHO&E (E=experience) MIJ Fenders of that era are quite nice. Humming and shielding are no strangers to many MIM/MIA Strats, either... :wink:

On that "what to do" angle, very, very much IMHO: keep the guitar as stock as possible, and tolerate the 'flaws' or rather characteristics it has.
I like the history it has in itself, and particularly since you've had it so long...


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Post subject: Re: My 1985 Japanese Stratocaster - Tremelo/Pickup Questions
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:43 am
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Thanks for the reply, man. It's definitely a type I, just in black. I'm away from home at the moment, but here's a pic that's closer to the tremelo:

Image

I do notice that it seems to rest at more of an angle from the body than the chrome unit shown in your first link. Maybe the three original springs in the back of mine are worn out or need another one added to the mix.


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Post subject: Re: My 1985 Japanese Stratocaster - Tremelo/Pickup Questions
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:46 am
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I did not see it in the thread ... who autographed it?

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Post subject: Re: My 1985 Japanese Stratocaster - Tremelo/Pickup Questions
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:40 pm
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Chris Duarte. He's a Texas Blues Guitarist similar in style to Stevie Ray Vaughn and Ian Moore. :) Friend of mine helped engineer on one of his albums in Nashville.


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Post subject: Re: My 1985 Japanese Stratocaster - Tremelo/Pickup Questions
Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 7:18 am
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Craig.... Yep it's definitely the "unknown" model. My theory is that they ran out of coil splitters at the factory and just kept making them anyway. I have the same guitar in black. I also bought it new and had trouble keeping it in tune, so I quit using the locking system and raised the bridge all the way up so that I could use it in open tunings for slide work. I recently reset it back to its factory suggested settings and was amazed with what a gem I really had. The trick to keeping it in tune is to use graphite lube on the nut, a trick I learned from a Brad Gillis interview. Also, make sure that the strings are strung correctly through the locking system. This guitar will only increase in value, so I wouldn't alter it in any way. I'm lucky enough to have many guitars in my stable and I'm a working musician... This guitar is now my favorite. I can put on new strings and rarely need to tune it for the life of the strings!


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Post subject: Re: My 1985 Japanese Stratocaster - Tremelo/Pickup Questions
Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 2:19 pm
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HI there.

Nice Guitar, as others have said, other then the grounding kit being so unique I would keep her stock.

I have and quite a few guitars with tremolos, even one with the Kahler (A G&L superhawk) and a Floyd rose with the EVH d-tuna.

The Kahler is the only one I have issues with staying in tune, as it is a full floating and can not be set up like my others can.

This is how I set mine up, assuming this is the standard type tremolo with a block and springs on the backside.
I bend quiet a bit so this works for me, I add springs to 4 or 5 (I play 010-011 sets a 009 could still use three) and I ground my tremolo to the body. I do this by tightening the spring plate to the point that a 1.5 bend on the "G" string does not change the tuning of the low "E" string.

Yes, the tremolo still with work (Going down only) But it does limit what you can do with it.

But it stays in tune all night long.....and if it's good enough for Clapton, who am I to argue the point.

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Post subject: Re: My 1985 Japanese Stratocaster - Tremelo/Pickup Questions
Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 10:14 pm
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mgard wrote:
Craig.... Yep it's definitely the "unknown" model. My theory is that they ran out of coil splitters at the factory and just kept making them anyway. I have the same guitar in black. I also bought it new and had trouble keeping it in tune, so I quit using the locking system and raised the bridge all the way up so that I could use it in open tunings for slide work. I recently reset it back to its factory suggested settings and was amazed with what a gem I really had. The trick to keeping it in tune is to use graphite lube on the nut, a trick I learned from a Brad Gillis interview. Also, make sure that the strings are strung correctly through the locking system. This guitar will only increase in value, so I wouldn't alter it in any way. I'm lucky enough to have many guitars in my stable and I'm a working musician... This guitar is now my favorite. I can put on new strings and rarely need to tune it for the life of the strings!


Question. How would using graphite lube on the nut help in this case as it is a locking nut? I thought that tip only worked on standard nuts.

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Post subject: Re: My 1985 Japanese Stratocaster - Tremelo/Pickup Questions
Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 10:28 pm
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:lol:

Yeah, lubing a locking nut will do nothing, except maybe attract dust and/or make a mess.

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Post subject: Re: My 1985 Japanese Stratocaster - Tremelo/Pickup Questions
Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:27 am
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ebaysux wrote:

Question. How would using graphite lube on the nut help in this case as it is a locking nut? I thought that tip only worked on standard nuts.


That guitar doesn't have a locking nut - the System 1 has a string clamp located right behind the regular nut (it's visible in the OP's first photo of the entire guitar, the close-up of the headstock starts at the string clamp). So you lube the regular nut and don't mess with the string clamp.


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Post subject: Re: My 1985 Japanese Stratocaster - Tremelo/Pickup Questions
Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:20 am
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John C wrote:
ebaysux wrote:

Question. How would using graphite lube on the nut help in this case as it is a locking nut? I thought that tip only worked on standard nuts.


That guitar doesn't have a locking nut - the System 1 has a string clamp located right behind the regular nut (it's visible in the OP's first photo of the entire guitar, the close-up of the headstock starts at the string clamp). So you lube the regular nut and don't mess with the string clamp.


Ah okay I can see that now. So I guess the strings can still bind in the nut on those. I guess back then they figured drilling that monstrosity into the headstock made more sense then locking tuners granted it was cost effective lol.

I am not too big on those trem systems granted back in the day I routed an old strat body and neck for a Floyd Rose and humbuckers, put in separated toggles for each pup on/off and then another set of toggles for coil taps and painted the body slime green. The old "Steve Vai wannabee days". Now whenever I see an old Strat with that done I ask "what kind of idiot would ruin a perfectly good strat"...and that would be me back then.

Granted the one in this post is cool since it is factory original and original owner. I would treasure that one and not mess with it.

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Post subject: Re: My 1985 Japanese Stratocaster - Tremelo/Pickup Questions
Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:33 am
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ebaysux wrote:
John C wrote:
ebaysux wrote:

Question. How would using graphite lube on the nut help in this case as it is a locking nut? I thought that tip only worked on standard nuts.


That guitar doesn't have a locking nut - the System 1 has a string clamp located right behind the regular nut (it's visible in the OP's first photo of the entire guitar, the close-up of the headstock starts at the string clamp). So you lube the regular nut and don't mess with the string clamp.


Ah okay I can see that now. So I guess the strings can still bind in the nut on those. I guess back then they figured drilling that monstrosity into the headstock made more sense then locking tuners granted it was cost effective lol.

I am not too big on those trem systems granted back in the day I routed an old strat body and neck for a Floyd Rose and humbuckers, put in separated toggles for each pup on/off and then another set of toggles for coil taps and painted the body slime green. The old "Steve Vai wannabee days". Now whenever I see an old Strat with that done I ask "what kind of idiot would ruin a perfectly good strat"...and that would be me back then.

Granted the one in this post is cool since it is factory original and original owner. I would treasure that one and not mess with it.


I think we all went through phases like that back in the mid-80s :lol: !

One of the "now vintage" but back then "player" guitars I missed out in back in 1985 was a naturally reliced '67 Strat in sunburst. I could have gotten it for $500 back then because someone had replaced all the cracked original plastic with late-70s black plastic parts. I'm sure if I had bought it I would have routed it for a humbucker and a Floyd - something I would never do today.


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Post subject: Re: My 1985 Japanese Stratocaster - Tremelo/Pickup Questions
Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:07 pm
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Well even a routed 67 body would be worth thousands these days. But in original condition...heck, I can't even imagine...has to be in the 5 digits. It does seem apparent that in the 80s we took these old Fenders for granted and just wanted to be Van Halen.... Which I can guess why over 1/2 the old bodies for sale now were routed for something and or stripped. Who knew that these would be worth anything now? Back then everyone wanted Kramers.

Heck I am restoring a 1969 Gibson SG as one of my projects and the last owner sanded down the headstock. You have no idea what I need to go through to get that MOP inlay looking right again. If only someone was there to smack his hand away before he took sandpaper to it and said "IDIOT....it is worth 2 to 3 times as much if you leave it as is".

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Post subject: Re: My 1985 Japanese Stratocaster - Tremelo/Pickup Questions
Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:51 pm
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Yep, that is true. Of course my story of that '67 is this - in 1985 it was really only the pre-CBS models that were fetching large dollars - but even the earliest blackguard Teles and first years of Strats were fetching a couple of thousand at that time, and maybe a '65 would get you a grand or so for a sunburst. Big headstock models were still "player grade". This one turned up a the local new Fender dealer where I was living at the time priced at $500. I thought that was kind of high for a beat used guitar.

What I didn't know was that the original plastic was in a bag in the case. Someone bought it, put the original parts and flipped it to our local used/vintage dealer who promptly priced it at $875. That was when I decided I should learn everything I could about the used market - hindsight is always 20/20.


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