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Post subject: 10s on a deluxe ?
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:00 pm
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Would I need to have a new setup or do anything to the term if I put 10s on a deluxe? Ta!


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Post subject: Re: 10s on a deluxe ?
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:04 pm
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Quite possibly a slight setup tweaking would be required when changing from 9s to 10s.

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Post subject: Re: 10s on a deluxe ?
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:05 pm
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And what about the trem? Would I need more springs in? Thanks!


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Post subject: Re: 10s on a deluxe ?
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:07 pm
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09's are standard, so you shouldn't need to do any setup going to 10's.

The operative word here is shouldn't. Since every individual guitar is unique to some extent, you may need to check neck relief and also the nut to see that the 10's are seating properly.

I suspect these will be OK, but one can never say for sure w/ 100% absolute certainty.

The Deluxe has locking tuners, so be sure to leave enough length in the new strings to do 2.5 winds on the peg and also be sure that the winds are downward.

Good Luck !

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: 10s on a deluxe ?
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:06 pm
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I agree with Lighnin MN.
If you are very particular about your setup as I am you may want to do a truss rod adjustment, a slight tightening of the trem claw screws and then recheck intonation afterward but for all intents and purposes it should be passable as is, provided it wasn't all wonky to begin with.

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Post subject: Re: 10s on a deluxe ?
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:38 pm
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Under Fender's Setup Guide is provided specific information for locking tuners, regarding orientation of the tuner keyhole for string insertion..

http://www.fender.com/en-CA/support/articles/stratocaster-setup-guide/

Locking tuning keys. Picture the headcap of the neck as the face of a clock, with the top being 12:00 and the nut being 6:00. Line the six tuning machines so that the first string keyhole is set at 1:00, the second at 2:00, the third and fourth at 3:00, the fifth at 4:00, and the sixth at 5:00. Pull the strings through tautly and tighten the thumb wheel, locking the string in. Now tune to pitch.

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Post subject: Re: 10s on a deluxe ?
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:03 pm
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Yes, the locking tuners eliminate the need for any windings around the string posts. Mine have at the most 3/4 of a wind on the smaller strings.

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Post subject: Re: 10s on a deluxe ?
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:12 am
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The typical total tension on a .009-set is about 88 lbs/40 kg, on a .010-set 106 lbs/48 kg. That's, again in round figures, 20% more tension.
So, I do a setup every time I change string gauge - and a checkup every time I change strings. Sometimes (not often) no adjustments are needed.
Of course, around where I live, the temp/humidity changes are rapid and substantial.


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Post subject: Re: 10s on a deluxe ?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:06 am
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I just went through this on my deluxe. I broke one of the original strings (B string from the set of 9's), and all I had were packs of 10's. Put them on and went through the whole set up procedure according to Hoyle. Unfortunately, I had not measured the baseline setup before the string broke, so I was going from scratch.
New strings on, check relief, check action, trem height, etc. Put them all to the recommended specs. But it didn't feel right. Bending effort was a lot harder than it should be, couldn't 'grab' the stings right. I couldn't quite place the cause. More relief seemed to help, played with the action, trem, etc.
Anyhow, after a few days of fiddling, it finally feels good, but with higher action that normally recommended (.080 at 17th). I'll see if I get used to the heavier feel. I have another (non-fender) guitar with exactly the same strings, which feels a lot better with them. But the strat felt best with 9's. IMO.

Short version: get some measurements before you change - then you'll know how much effect the heavier strings will have. Easier to get it the way you want, and easier if you ever want to go back. Also, everything interacts - make one small change at a time and test it - don't make multiple changes.


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Post subject: Re: 10s on a deluxe ?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:45 am
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jmattis wrote:
The typical total tension on a .009-set is about 88 lbs/40 kg, on a .010-set 106 lbs/48 kg. That's, again in round figures, 20% more tension.
So, I do a setup every time I change string gauge - and a checkup every time I change strings. Sometimes (not often) no adjustments are needed.
Of course, around where I live, the temp/humidity changes are rapid and substantial.


+1


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Post subject: Re: 10s on a deluxe ?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:34 am
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jmattis wrote:
The typical total tension on a .009-set is about 88 lbs/40 kg, on a .010-set 106 lbs/48 kg. That's, again in round figures, 20% more tension.
So, I do a setup every time I change string gauge - and a checkup every time I change strings. Sometimes (not often) no adjustments are needed.
Of course, around where I live, the temp/humidity changes are rapid and substantial.


Use & Abuse of statistics to inject an alarmist statement such as 20% more tension...

These necks are often used in guitars sporting .11s & .12s easily, so a 20% increase in tension is insignificant.

I applaud you for doing a setup and I too, being persnickety, would also check all the parameters and adjust to insure proper tension/intonation.

But I can do my own setups. I may not be so particular if I had to shell out $60 each time I changed string gauge for someone else to do it for me.

I think the OP was weighing this decision against the cost of such a setup, which in most cases really won't be needed. But as I said, not with 100% certainty.

cheers!

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'99 Deluxe Nashville Telecaster
'12 FSR Telecaster HH
'10 Heritage H-535
'99 Martin DC-1E
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Post subject: Re: 10s on a deluxe ?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:47 am
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shimmilou wrote:
Yes, the locking tuners eliminate the need for any windings around the string posts. Mine have at the most 3/4 of a wind on the smaller strings.


Interesting...

My American Deluxe Ash was personally setup by a Stringed Instrument Support Technician at FMIC Stringed Instrument Corporation in Scottsdale before being overnighted to me. It did not come from a store, but directly from Fender in Scottsdale.

The action and intonation were spot-on, and the guitar didn't even need tuning (I checked all these things before playing it for the 1st time).

Not only did it have 2.5 winds, but I was told this is necessary in order to insure the strings have sufficient downward pressure across the top of the zero fret (Nut).

cheers!

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'11 FSR Am. Vtg. Ltd. Ed. CAR '57 Stratocaster (SN# LE02639)
'14 American Deluxe Ash Stratocaster
'12 Telebration Empress Telecaster
'99 Deluxe Nashville Telecaster
'12 FSR Telecaster HH
'10 Heritage H-535
'99 Martin DC-1E
'13 Lanikai Tenor Ukulele


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Post subject: Re: 10s on a deluxe ?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:10 am
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Lightnin MN wrote:

Use & Abuse of statistics to inject an alarmist statement such as 20% more tension...

These necks are often used in guitars sporting .11s & .12s easily, so a 20% increase in tension is insignificant.


I made no comment on what gauge strings the necks can handle, only made the point that different strings affect the setup. And I wanted to bring some facts to the conversation, opposed to that "shouldn't" mentioned above. How's that use and abuse..?

If a Strat with a floating trem is properly set up for 9's, an increase (here that 20%...) in the strings' tension definitely raises the bridge, which affects both intonation and string height. Depending on the neck, the relief may also need adjusting.

But: that's just IMHO based on my experience - sorry my opinion is different from yours. :wink:

And yes, I'm trying to be a perfectionist with the setups & such.


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Post subject: Re: 10s on a deluxe ?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:26 pm
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Lightnin MN wrote:
...Use & Abuse of statistics to inject an alarmist statement such as 20% more tension...

These necks are often used in guitars sporting .11s & .12s easily, so a 20% increase in tension is insignificant...


:lol: What happens to a spring when you put more tension on it? That's right, it stretches. :lol:

Any more tension on the strings will increase the pull on a floating bridge, definitely raising the bridge, and possibly increasing the bow in the neck, which will need to be compensated for with an adjustment to the trem spring claw, and possibly a truss rod adjustment to bring the action back to where it was with the smaller gauge strings. No one is arguing that the guitar can't have bigger string gauge installed, just that the increase in tension likely will affect the setup, maybe not much but some affect. I used to immediately change from 9s to 10s whenever I bought a new guitar, but now I appreciate 9s more than I used to, so I leave them. Every time that I increased the string gauge, the bridge lifted and increased the height of the action, requiring tightening the trem claw screws, and sometimes a truss rod adjustment.

As far as windings on the string posts with locking tuners, use the Fender recommendation and you will not have 2 windings on the post, not even close. I have changed many tuners on my guitars to locking tuners, and don't use even a full winding on the posts. Of course personal preference considered, you can put as many windings as you feel necessary.

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