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Post subject: Re: My guitar is false or true?
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:11 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
If it's absolution you seek, I doubt that you'll find it here.

You've got a hundred-dollar Squier. Period.

Arjay


+ 1M !!! :evil:

'Nuff Said... !!! :mrgreen:

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: My guitar is false or true?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:49 am
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orvilleowner wrote:
That was a crazy period for Squier, 1989-early 1990's. Production was all over the globe.

There was the "Squier by Fender," made in USA, 1989-1990. These were supposedly painted in Mexico.

After that series of guitars, when production was started in Mexico, the bodies and necks were still made in the USA! The bodies were stamped "SQUIER" as yours is. (Your neck has a 1992 date; March or May.) The parts were painted and assembled in Mexico with "Squier" logos and "Made in Mexico" decals.

John C says that some of these Mexican Squiers had "Fender" logos and were exported (outside of North America, I guess). Maybe the fact that bodies and necks were routed in USA could allow them to be sold with that logo. I couldn't find confirmation of this.

It is hard to get definitive information; the web is full of misinformation (like a fire in the Mexican factory or the Asian factory, one or the other!).

The "SQUIER" stamp makes me think that your body and neck could have been cut out and routed in USA (but not painted or assembled).


That is my best guess on these as well - this might have been done to use up whatever necks and bodies for that Squier Series model that were cut in the USA but were no longer needed after Ensenada was fully up and producing necks and bodies for their models.

So basically is one of those odd time frame USA Squier By Fenders (Squier spec bodies, electronics and hardware, MIM Standard spec necks, all cut in the USA) re-branded as a USA Fender model and sold elsewhere in the world - not in the USA and maybe not even in Europe. I thought these were supposed to have serial numbers with an "F" added in front of the "N1xxxxx" part (they are listed on the Fender support site as having "FN" serial numbers) but evidently the "F" didn't get added on a lot of them that went to South America.


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Post subject: Re: My guitar is false or true?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:11 am
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John C wrote:
I thought these were supposed to have serial numbers with an "F" added in front of the "N1xxxxx" part (they are listed on the Fender support site as having "FN" serial numbers) but evidently the "F" didn't get added on a lot of them that went to South America.
So I am assuming that the missing F would have stood for FAKE..?

I'm thinking it's a re-branded (fake decal) neck on a completely fake body. Sometimes you get what you pay for... sometimes you don't.

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Post subject: Re: My guitar is false or true?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:17 am
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Post subject: Re: My guitar is false or true?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:56 am
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CRGuitarMan wrote:
I'm thinking it's a re-branded (fake decal) neck on a completely fake body. Sometimes you get what you pay for... sometimes you don't.


This entire sordid ordeal would make for a great segment of the Jerry Springer Show.

:lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: My guitar is false or true?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:12 am
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CRGuitarMan wrote:
John C wrote:
I thought these were supposed to have serial numbers with an "F" added in front of the "N1xxxxx" part (they are listed on the Fender support site as having "FN" serial numbers) but evidently the "F" didn't get added on a lot of them that went to South America.
So I am assuming that the missing F would have stood for FAKE..?

I'm thinking it's a re-branded (fake decal) neck on a completely fake body. Sometimes you get what you pay for... sometimes you don't.


No - please check the support tab at the top of the page under "Unusual Serial Numbers" and you will see that "FNxxxxx" is a Fender format.

http://www.fender.com/support/articles/ ... ct-dating/

Let me put it this way - 99.5% of the time something like this is really a fake. With Fender, there is that 0.5% of the time that something that looks like a fake is a real Fender product. This may be one of those instances - and impossible to know without seeing it in person to see if there is any sign the headstock decal was replaced and the headstock refinished.


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Post subject: Re: My guitar is false or true?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:14 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
This entire sordid ordeal would make for a great segment of the Jerry Springer Show.


Yeah! Usually when we see a neck with the black plastic truss rod insert and a Fender logo, it is a fake, made from import parts. But for some time, the "Mexican" necks with black plastic truss rod inserts were actually made in the USA. So even if the OP's guitar was originally an early '90s MIM Squier and someone rebranded it, put on a Fender logo, that wouldn't change where the body and neck were made.

The confirmation I found was on the FDP forum, where Keith Brawley (I believe he was a Fender executive in charge of Squier) posted in 2000:

Keith Brawley - VP Fender Feb 9th, 2000 wrote:
MIM means great quality to me, as does MIJ. The difference is in value. When the exchange rate was 150 yen to the dollar, it made sense to build those guitars in Japan. At 110 yen, you'd pay 40% more for the exact same guitar if we kept making it in Japan just because of currency exchange rates.

Beyond that, the MIM product utilizes necks and bodies made in our Corona, CA factory, which keeps the machinery humming and the factory efficient...keeping prices for USA-made product down. Not to mention the great synergy in working with a world-class, Fender-owned and operated factory that's a
truck ride away instead of a contracted factory (also great but an ocean away).

Also, many of our senior managers and experienced craftsmen in Corona speak Spanish. (A proud Fender company culture since the Pre-CBS days) Few speak Japanese. This is one more advantage of building in Mexico. No language barrier for us.

I have to tell you, I'm so proud of the Fender people in Mexico and the absolutely fantastic job they do, that I don't miss the MIJ models at all.


I don't know how long MIM models used bodies and necks made in the US factory.

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Post subject: Re: My guitar is false or true?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:49 am
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This has turned into a pretty significant post for Fender lore/history buffs. 8)

I had read about US necks & bodies being sent to MX but had never read any corroborating material. :?:

Keith Brawley via orvilleowner sounds like an authentic source quoted by a reliable forum member. So we're inching away from internet imagining into near verified status? :lol:

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Post subject: Re: My guitar is false or true?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:29 pm
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danagos wrote:
I had read about US necks & bodies being sent to MX but had never read any corroborating material. :?:


It seems that the Mexican factory got its body production up and running before its neck production, but I can't find specific dates.

danagos wrote:
Keith Brawley via orvilleowner sounds like an authentic source quoted by a reliable forum member. So we're inching away from internet imagining into near verified status? :lol:


It seems that it really was a Fender executive posting on the FDP forum. He was at Fender from 1989 to 2001. Then Brawley had his own company, joined Guitar Center, Gibson, and currently at Taylor Guitars.

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Post subject: Re: My guitar is false or true?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:23 pm
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orvilleowner wrote:
It seems that it really was a Fender executive posting on the FDP forum. He was at Fender from 1989 to 2001. Then Brawley had his own company, joined Guitar Center, Gibson, and currently at Taylor Guitars.

Keith Brawley seems like an interesting guy. His Wiki states that he built a great guitar of good value, then when Mars music folded, they dragged him down.

There's a couple of them on ebay for $295 & $359. Not those pictured:

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Post subject: Re: My guitar is false or true?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:43 pm
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orvilleowner wrote:
I don't know how long MIM models used bodies and necks made in the US factory.


My two oldest MIM's are prefixed as "MN8" and "MN9", 1998 and 1999 respectively. I don't know if their bodies and necks were fabricated in the US though. Both were fine guitars right out of the box -- '50s Classic Series Strats in 2TSB and Surf Green -- and both responded fabulously to all the upgrades I'd planned.

Thanks for re-posting Keith Brawley's comments -- it's always enlightening to learn what FMIC's exec's have to say about Fender's offshore production facilities.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: My guitar is false or true?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:37 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
My two oldest MIM's are prefixed as "MN8" and "MN9", 1998 and 1999 respectively. I don't know if their bodies and necks were fabricated in the US though.


I believe they would have been fabricated in the US.

Some say that US production of "MIM" bodies and necks continued to 2005.

I have seen photos from a 2006 tour of the Mexican factory which clearly show that production of bodies and necks was well under way there at that time.

See: http://www.activebass.com/m433695--Fend ... -Interview

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Last edited by orvilleowner on Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: My guitar is false or true?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:43 pm
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If that be the case, then neither of the two guitars I mentioned has any Ensenada-made parts at all -- everything not made of wood was upgraded to MIA Fender and DiMarzio. I'll start calling them my "gringo-casters".

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: My guitar is false or true?
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:40 pm
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This subject has been covered quite a bit in my old thread from a year ago. I regret a lot of the original thread's supporting photos of other guitars of this specification in N. America have been lost due to the age of the links.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=84239

A lot of good replies were provided when I raised my questions. You can see the OP's guitar and mine have many identical features.

The bottom line is that it is pretty well documented with plenty of examples that Fender sold Fender-branded MIA Strats in overseas markets like the original poster's that were apparently built using enough components of USA origin to qualify for the MIA designation and decal, but were basically to Squier/MIM specification of the components that were fitted.

What is still unanswered is why Fender may have caused or allowed some of these guitars to be released into the American market, where they were indistinguishable to novice buyers like myself from the American Standard model that I thought I was buying.


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Post subject: Re: My guitar is false or true?
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:49 pm
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Michael7 wrote:
This subject has been covered quite a bit in my old thread from a year ago. I regret a lot of the original thread's supporting photos of other guitars of this specification in N. America have been lost due to the age of the links.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=84239

A lot of good replies were provided when I raised my questions. You can see the OP's guitar and mine have many identical features.

The bottom line is that it is pretty well documented with plenty of examples that Fender sold Fender-branded MIA Strats in overseas markets like the original poster's that were apparently built using enough components of USA origin to qualify for the MIA designation and decal, but were basically to Squier/MIM specification of the components that were fitted.

What is still unanswered is why Fender may have caused or allowed some of these guitars to be released into the American market, where they were indistinguishable to novice buyers like myself from the American Standard model that I thought I was buying.


Nomenclature and identification does become a murky endeavor when export-only products find their way into the domestic market by whatever means. The best solution is to research to the maximum extent possible before buying anything that doesn't seem to match the manufacturer's available literature (catalogs, flyers, price lists, etc). Bear in mind though that Fender releases many FSR guitars which are for the most part un-cataloged and their spec's may deviate from regular production instruments.

Arjay

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