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Post subject: Re: New American Deluxe Arrived Yesterday with Sharp Frets
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:52 pm
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Xhefri wrote:
BMW-KTM, I can understand you desire not to point the finger by jumping to conclusions. I admire that. But in working with guitars a lot, as you and I have, there is a degree of logic that can be used. And if indeed there was a problem at some part of the production at Fender that has slipped through a few times, it would in no way incriminate them as being bad or purposely pawning problems off on unsuspecting buyers. All company's that mass produce are liable to have a manufacturing glitch. I mean even BMW or KTM, two companies I highly respect, have had manufacturing issues which they had to fix at the production level. It in no way lessened the reputation of these companies. In fact the admitting and fixing the problem often make them more reputable.

Anyhow laying that aside, lets get back to logic. I smile when I hear someone say, "The neck has fret sprout!" :lol: Ok, we know frets are non organic and they can't sprout! So what is really being said here is the wood shrunk. So when this fret sprouting occurs one of two things are the cause of the problem: 1) The frets were not dressed properly from the factory, or 2) the wood was not cured properly. It is possible that from time to time a chunk of, or even a batch of wood, in a mass production situation, could got through production without having been cured completely. That is the only way supposedly "dried, cured, or kilned" wood could shrink after fretted and finished. If indeed Fender has let some of this slip through, they simply need to own up to it and a tighten their quality control.

I have never seen the likes of the 2000 DX Strat neck that I recently bought. Like new but the frets were protruding in such a manner that was unnatural for a guitar to play comfortably. As narrow as a neck is to shrink that much from side to side after the finish is on the neck says something is wrong at the plant.

At this point can anyone give any better conclusions than the two options I put forth? Not trying to pick a fight with anyone, but rather trying to understand "fret sprouting". Again, I have owned 100s of Strats, and never saw this before. And now I have heard about it several times, and as this thread point out, on brand new guitars out of the box.

****sp8ctre, your above post came online right when I posted mine so I did not read it till after mine posted ******

I am in complete agreement with everything you've said.
I only meant that just because the Fender rep was able to identify the problem with (the unfortunately named) 'fret sprout' doesn't automatically mean there's a QA/QC problem at Fender. You very correctly pointed out that all companies sometimes have a lemon slip through the cracks, even very reputable companies like Fender, BMW and KTM. That doesn't mean it's an epidemic. That's all I'm saying. It's an aberration ... as you and I both have rarely, if ever, encountered a problem like that.

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Post subject: Re: New American Deluxe Arrived Yesterday with Sharp Frets
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:57 pm
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Now if we were talking about Fender's previous generation of HR amps there might be some merit to an accusation of 'a problem at Fender', something they appear to have begun working at correcting.

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Post subject: Re: New American Deluxe Arrived Yesterday with Sharp Frets
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:16 am
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I'm glad this conversation is taking place in this forum where it *might* be seen & questions raised by FMIC mg'mt.

Presently I've got 4 Electric guitars, down from 22! I had always accepted some fret sprout as the price to pay for the glories of a NJ winter. :roll:

The heat is on, the house is dry and only the Taylor Acoustic is properly humidified in its case.

This year we've had an unrelenting winter, none of those days when you throw open the windows and fantasize about Spring. Not even in Spring! :D

So, we've set the stage. All below are Maple fretboards.

The '03 Fender Am Dlx (soft-V) had the worst fret sprout of the bunch, and definitely needed the file!

The approx. '96 to '99 Fender Jimmie Vaughan MIM neck - had fret sprout that needed addressing.

The '93 Fender Strat Plus had minimal fret sprout, no work needed.

The '81 MIJ Electra neck has not a hint of fret sprout. Smooth as the baby's cheeks.

Matsomoku Inst. Co. (Electra) had a well deserved reputation of high quality and their plant was in the Japanese Alps where the air was cool and dry, they had generations of woodworking & instrument building experience. Not to mention the typical Japanese fanaticism regarding quality.

Is it a problem with the way the wood is cured? I'm inclined to say yes. I'm guessing that modern manufacturing techniques have found that the necks are cured "enough".

That means the customer accepts this level of quality. I'm sure FMIC compares QC returns to production numbers and wants to maintain their good reputation. That's what's at stake for FMIC.

So, it's good to air this situation out. Maybe there is a problem, maybe not.

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Post subject: Re: New American Deluxe Arrived Yesterday with Sharp Frets
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:02 am
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I have never owned a Fender that had fret sprout, but I've played a few - in particular it was a couple of Strat Ultras I turned up at Akron Music when I was living up there (so it would have been between 9/91 and 2/94). They had a small shop in the Fairlawn area near Summit Mall; they had 2 sunburst Ultras and both had fret sprout. It was either in January/March 1992 or January/March 1993 when I turned these up.

I have experienced it on an Ernie Ball/Music Man Albert Lee I owned back around 2006 or so - now they are prone to this due since their necks are virtually unfinished (very light oil/wax finish) plus they use birdseye maple. I also found horrible fret sprout on the first couple of EVH Wolfgangs I tried out - again, a virtually unfinished neck.

I'm not sure that there isn't a combination of environmental factors and less cured/dried wood.


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Post subject: Re: New American Deluxe Arrived Yesterday with Sharp Frets
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:09 am
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John C wrote:
I'm not sure that there isn't a combination of environmental factors and less cured/dried wood.

I'm sure that was the case with the MIM Buddy Guy model I purchased from Sam Ash, Carle Place, NY, not long after its initial release date.

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Post subject: Re: New American Deluxe Arrived Yesterday with Sharp Frets
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:23 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
John C wrote:
I'm not sure that there isn't a combination of environmental factors and less cured/dried wood.

I'm sure that was the case with the MIM Buddy Guy model I purchased from Sam Ash, Carle Place, NY, not long after its initial release date.

Guess I still struggle with the idea this is weather related. As you pointed out ZZ on a post at the start of this thread, the neck wood should be dry and stable when it leaves the plant. If anything, a neck should pick up moisture and swell a little after leaving the plant, as it was in a dry condition. Moisture in the wood causes it to be unstable. The tension of the strings can cause it to bend or warp if even a little green. In working with wood, to shape it, it is made moist be steaming, soaking etc. I think you know the concept. Green wood bends. Dry wood is hard and stable.

When we talk about "fret sprout" I think that term is used for any time the edges of the frets are slightly protruding—even mild edges sticking out, which may be from minor shrinking of the wood or maybe just not the edges file as well as they should have been when they left the plant. From what these guys are describing and what I see on this 2000 DX neck, it is more like a finish issue. Maybe it should be called "fret sprunging" or "fret stabbing"?? :lol: If it was a wood issue it had to be really green! to shrink that much because the edges of the frets are actually dangerous! If I twist my wrist and put pressure in my palm and slide it down the edge of the neck it hurts! :wink: Anyhow I wish sp8ctre would just drive to the plant at Corona and and ask them, "Hey is this suppose to be this way and why is it like this?!!!" :shock:

***Edit addition***
Seems like a company that builds guitars for years and that knows about this happening would simply come up with a way to make the frets a bit shorter to allow for any "shrinking" of the wood? I was just looking at my old Gibsons with bound necks and they are all in great shape around the frets...and all are old... and all have bound necks. Wow think about what fret sprouting would do to the binding on a neck! I do see my old 88 Les Paul has hairline cracks on a few frets. I remember watching a video of how the necks were made at Fender (YouTube?) and the finish sanding was done by hand with belt type sanders. The neck was placed in a jig and the fret slots were cut be a machine (going by memory here from a long time ago) and then the fret wire was placed in the slots and pressed in with a press. All the edges were hand dressed. Not sure if it is still done that way. But this means there could be variance on the finish work, which QC should catch. But I know the necks come from the same machine cuts, but do to being hand finished, they vary a little from neck to neck. I can't help but to think this is more a finish issue. OK I have beat the subject to death! Sorry!

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Last edited by Xhefri on Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: New American Deluxe Arrived Yesterday with Sharp Frets
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:39 pm
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Xhefri,

There is no doubt about it, it is from the wood shrinking, they don't leave the factory that way. I have had many that had no fret sprout when new, but then developed it after being in my house a while. I have even had a couple that "re-sprouted" and had to be filed a second time, one during this winter (very low humidity). It's not hard to believe that a new guitar that is stored for a while could develop fret sprout before being delivered to the first owner. My Am Dlx is the first Am made guitar that developed fret sprout, and it certainly wasn't that way when I received it, ordered brand new directly from the factory.

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Post subject: Re: New American Deluxe Arrived Yesterday with Sharp Frets
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:46 pm
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Xhefri wrote:
dangerous! If I twist my wrist and put pressure in my palm and slide it down the edge of the neck it hurts.

Many's the time i've walked along a wall of Fender guitars and lightly ran my thumb and index finger down the shoulders of the guitar necks. Ya'll do a little field work and tell us what you find. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: New American Deluxe Arrived Yesterday with Sharp Frets
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:50 pm
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Just added an addition to my previous post if your interested, right while you guys posted!

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Post subject: Re: New American Deluxe Arrived Yesterday with Sharp Frets
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:56 pm
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I have wondered about that myself. Why do the frets need to go to the very edge of the board? They could leave a little wiggle room, it wouldn't take much.

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Post subject: Re: New American Deluxe Arrived Yesterday with Sharp Frets
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:23 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
I have wondered about that myself. Why do the frets need to go to the very edge of the board? They could leave a little wiggle room, it wouldn't take much.

Silly....they don't want the frets to 'wiggle'. That's why. :oops: :oops: :oops: :wink:

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Post subject: Re: New American Deluxe Arrived Yesterday with Sharp Frets
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:54 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
shimmilou wrote:
I have wondered about that myself. Why do the frets need to go to the very edge of the board? They could leave a little wiggle room, it wouldn't take much.

Silly....they don't want the frets to 'wiggle'. That's why. :oops: :oops: :oops: :wink:

....it's OK...if they...SHIMMI.....

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Post subject: Re: New American Deluxe Arrived Yesterday with Sharp Frets
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:13 pm
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:lol:

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Post subject: Re: New American Deluxe Arrived Yesterday with Sharp Frets
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:12 am
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Sorry I am so OCD about subjects like this. But I was thinking about this and if I lived within one hour of the Corona Plant I would find out what days and times they gave plant tours, go on a tour and have my guitar in the trunk of my car. I would start up a conversation with the tour guide and work my way to being able to talk with someone in QC or a plant manager and then get them to come out to my car and look at the guitar. Here is a chance of a plant foreman or QC person to see an end product out of the box in the hands of a consumer. And then have them explain this fret sprouting thing to me. I would want to know first hand about his/her thoughts on how this could be. Then I would post my finding HERE! 8)

Like I mentioned earlier, I have a number of Gibsons. A newer Custom Shop and older 70s/80s models. All have bindings on the neck. I have never seen this fret issue on a Gibson and if it did happen it would destroy the binding on the neck, at least the way the frets are sticking out on the neck I have.

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Post subject: Re: New American Deluxe Arrived Yesterday with Sharp Frets
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:27 am
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Xhefri wrote:
Sorry I am so OCD about subjects like this.his/her thoughts on how this could be.....

Well......at least you're not AC/DC about it , old chap:!: :oops: :oops: :oops:

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