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Post subject: Re: Tuning Problem, 2 point Tremolo
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:55 am
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At least I know what the problem is now, thanks everyone for your help.


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Post subject: Re: Tuning Problem, 2 point Tremolo
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:50 pm
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calumlane wrote:
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Thanks for the pics OP....
Now I see something which I at first suspected from your 1st post....
And I am going to be blunt.....
You initially posted installing this two point on a MIM...
The 3rd photo clearly depicts what was a 6 point / screw vintage style Trem. as OEM....
Looking into the cavity Trem. pocket, I see a hacked out cavity, cut out with a chisel .... :shock: :?:
If that was the work done by your " Luthier " then you got taken... A luthier, that person is certainly not. Sorry but that is not professional work...

Here is why to back up my statement.
If you compare a Vintage Trem. routed body versus a 2 point Trem. routed body, you will see that in the Vintage body cavity, the section where the screws install is much thinner than on a two point body. Two completely different era designs separated by decades of refinement.

The two point install requires some extensive woodworking which apparently from the photo was not done properly, if at all ... There needs to be shoring up of that mounting section...
The six screws only require pilot holes drilled to the shaft diameter of the six screws, then the holes can be tapped with screws or with a special tap in the original...
But the two point Trem. is a fine threaded adjustment screw / bolt ( at the very least twice the diameter of a vintage screw ) plus the shaft that screw / bolt fits into is an insert about 3/8th or more in diameter....
So that two point requires a solid base, which a vintage style Trem. body does not have unless there is additional mass added.... This is a time consuming and expensive modification.
The Trem. cavity has to be slightly enlarged with a router, removing the area where the old six point Trem. fastened. That completed, a new block of wood would be inserted and bonded.
This would be a tight fitting block basically completely closing off the cavity as if it was a hard tail Stratocaster...
Next with the appropriate template, a new cavity would be routed out and new shaft insert holes drilled.... Then some color match finish applied so that it would look as original...
None of this is apparent and what is happening is that your two point shafts are moving, since there isn't enough wood mass to support them....

Also your Trem. is sitting way up at rest, past the neutral point. The vintage or for that matter the two point Trem. are not designed for extreme travel up or down ( sharp or flat ) For that you really must have a Floyd Rose Type locking Trem. and locking Nut....
The base you have should not matter unless there has also been slots cut into the two shafts..
But the knife edges are not the problem, again there isn't but a knife edge in contact with the shaft, binding would have to be extreme, to the point that your term would not move at all...

The least expensive and headache proof way of doing your conversion is to either go the route I just described, or install all the parts on a body routed specifically for the 2 point...
Both are not inexpensive, but this 6 point to 2 point Trem Modifications have been discussed on this Forum and it just isn't viable without major reworking....

Sorry but that is the problem you are facing...

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Post subject: Re: Tuning Problem, 2 point Tremolo
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:34 pm
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53magnatone, I really appreciate you taking the time to write out such a detailed message.
Firstly I'd like to say the guitar was bought second hand with the damage done to to back of the tremolo. The previous owner said he tried to fit a different sized trem unit on it.

The strat used to have a 6 screw tremolo, but the luthier I brought it to Filled in the holes, and installed the Two pivots correctly from scratch. He offered to repair the back but I declined due to the expense. So the posts are installed correctly from what I believe.
I removed the trem and looked to see if the posts were unstable and they seem to be sturdy and aren't appearing to be moving.
I also am looking for my strat to be floating, I am not interested in making it a hard-tail.
The bridge, granted was higher up than usual due to not screwing the springs up after removing everything to have a better look but I still am looking for the Minor 3rd pull up on the g sting, Something that seems to be fairly common in a lot of strat players.
I apologise if what I am saying is completley opposite to what you are saying. :lol:


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