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Post subject: Intonation issue on strat. No adjustment left
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:36 am
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Hey all.

Need your help. I have a USA strat with a vintage style trem. It's been setup but the E string is still sharp. Everything, like the nut, truss rod etc are setup correctly but the E has no room left to move backwards, it's maxed.

Any suggestions? I've looked online and can find loads of threads about sharp E's but none mention the saddle adjustment being full.

Thanks for any help.

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Post subject: Re: Intonation issue on strat. No adjustment left
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:54 am
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If you are sure neck bow is ok , you may have to cut little bit the spring behind the E saddles . Start with remove 1-2 splines.

Or your tuner is false .

Neck with too much bow = shorter scale and change string lengt and note still sharp .


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Post subject: Re: Intonation issue on strat. No adjustment left
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:49 am
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IMHO, there's often something wrong with the setup if the adjustment margin on bridge saddles in not enough.
I'd suggest a luthier to check it.


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Post subject: Re: Intonation issue on strat. No adjustment left
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:39 am
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my strats periodicly do the same thing. it's the neck relief always. temprature changes cause most of the problems also when you change strings to a different gauge than what it was will cause the neck relief to change a bit (heavy to light and vice versus). it's amazing what a good proper setup will do for the feel and sound of a strat.


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Post subject: Re: Intonation issue on strat. No adjustment left
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:09 am
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This past Christmas I was visiting an old friend back in my home town and he asked me to look at his guitar because he couldn't get the E string (6th) intoned. Ran out of room. Saddle cranked up tight against the bridge and spring squeezed hard. Still too sharp on 12. I checked all other aspects of his setup first and it was all good. Pulled the neck off and reinstalled to check for signs of improper placement or obvious factory defects or unusual wear or damage that might affect scale length. Found none. Nut was in good condition and did not look like it had ever been disturbed. The body wood and the bushings at the bridge pivot points was good. No signs of damage or movement. Bridge plate had no usual wear or signs of accidental bending or warping. Completely stock MIA Fender HSS Strat. Could find no reason for the issue so I finally relented, shrugged my shoulders and removed the saddle and ground about 0.050" or so off the back end and reinstalled and intoned. It worked. Guitar now plays and sounds great. I have no idea of what might have been the root cause. Never encountered that before. I suspect it was a poorly cast saddle block. Possibly shrinkage in the body or neck wood.

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Post subject: Re: Intonation issue on strat. No adjustment left
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:36 am
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I have had to shorten some E string saddle springs.

Another thing that could play a role is how high the bridge is floating.

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Post subject: Re: Intonation issue on strat. No adjustment left
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:54 am
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You can probably get a little more adjustment from the intonation screws by adjusting the tremolo at the claw. If you reduce the clearance between the bridge and the body, the whole bridge pivots towards the rear of the guitar and the string length is increased. You would need to shorten the string length again, by way of the intonation screws, to achieve the correct intonation. This will give you more adjustment and will hopefully solve the problem.

When setting your intonation you should lower the pickups away from the strings to avoid doubling and electromagnetic pull. You should also use the most accurate tuner you can, such as a strobe tuner.

The often used technique of the comparing the harmonic over the 12th fret and the fretted note is not always the most satisfactory. One alternative is to adjust the string so that it is in tune at two points an octave apart. Using the 5th and 17th frets as an example, you would tune the string at the 5th fret and check it at the 17th, adjusting the saddle as usual.

If all else fails you may have to shorten the spring on the intonation screw to allow for the additional adjustment required.

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Post subject: Re: Intonation issue on strat. No adjustment left
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:26 pm
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As SGB said previously, check the height of the pickups especially the neck pick up. I bought a 57 reissue used and saddle was far back but still not intonated. Pickups lowered and it is now set in more of the middle of the range. If everything else is set right then then it could be this. It is amazing how much of an effect a close pickup can have.


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Post subject: Re: Intonation issue on strat. No adjustment left
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:46 pm
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AS SGB write , check how is you tremolo. A wrong tremolo adjustment could shortened the guitar scale and youre intonnation is false


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Post subject: Re: Intonation issue on strat. No adjustment left
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:21 pm
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Ok, tried all the stuff out. The E is still playing up a bit. The neck is as Fender say it should be (.25mm at 8th fret, Cappo on 1st and pushed down on the last fret). Intonation is set by harmonic at the 12th then fretted, all appears fine. Have reduced pickup height, trem has been lowered to almost flush, I cut the spring in half and even had to trim the screw.

Action is set to 2mm on all strings at 17th fret. I get choking on the high E between the 4th & 9th frets. Well not choking but the string is touching something. Could need the frets levelled.

On the low E it's like it goes sharp below the 12th fret ( frets 1-11) and flat above it (13-22) but on the 12th it's prefect.

It's better than it was but I'm still not happy with it. Any more suggestions on the above? If it helps the guitar has either vintage or medium frets, 9.5 radius, Vintage noiseless pickups and vintage style trem.

Thanks.

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Post subject: Re: Intonation issue on strat. No adjustment left
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:39 pm
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Could it be the nut is too high?

Also if it's choking on the high E on a few frets is levelling the best way to go?

Cheers.

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Post subject: Re: Intonation issue on strat. No adjustment left
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:16 pm
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Ferengo wrote:
On the low E it's like it goes sharp below the 12th fret ( frets 1-11) and flat above it (13-22) but on the 12th it's prefect.
How are you checking at the 12th? Are you fretting the note or using the harmonic? If you are using the harmonic you will not get it right no matter how hard you try and no matter what the other web sites tell you about adjusting the intonation. Leave that harmonic advise alone because it's garbage and actually fret the notes on the 12th. Using the harmonic does not take into account the increased tension on the string when you actually play the guitar and fret the strings. Chances are you have been adjusting your saddles in the wrong direction. They likely need to be closer to the nut rather than further away.

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Post subject: Re: Intonation issue on strat. No adjustment left
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:22 pm
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I'm tuning by a harmonic over the 12th then checking the intonation by fretting it at the 12th. Is that the right way or is that what you're saying not to do?

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Post subject: Re: Intonation issue on strat. No adjustment left
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:25 pm
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I compare the open string to the fretted 12th. I try not to include harmonics at all in the process because harmonics don't really come into play during regular play except as an embellishment. Whatever the theoretically perfect intonation might be I don't see it as being very relevant. I only concern myself with how the guitar sounds when I play it. That means either open strings or fretted strings. I don't care if harmonics are absolutley bang on because they represent such a small percentage of my total playing.

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Post subject: Re: Intonation issue on strat. No adjustment left
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:00 am
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Ok, gotcha. I'll tune up normally rather than harmonic and see if that yields a better result. I won't get a chance to do it until I'm at home tonight but I'll post back with the results. Really appreciate the advice from everyone on here, thanks.

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