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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:30 pm
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I've played in trios back in the 70s and to me most of them seem to be missing something. There are a few that are exceptions. I now play in a 2 guitar, bass, keyboard, drum, and singer who sometimes plays guitar also and our sound is huge. I don't see me going back to the trio thing ever again.


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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:11 pm
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It might pay to listen carefully to 'Cream', 'Led Zep', 'Hendrix' a'ZZTop', 'Rush'...live.....for the sense of things. I have my suspicions when it comes to some studio stuff that they may be overdubbing themselves.
Legatto virtuosity and effects have a great deal of input in these endeavors.

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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:14 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
I have my suspicions when it comes to some studio stuff that they may be overdubbing themselves.

+1

Nothing 'suspicious' about it, Doc. Listen to Cream's "SWLABR" (Disraeli Gears), Zeppelin's "Livin' Lovin' Maid" (LZII), or Jimi's "All Along The Watchtower" (Electric Ladyland). The overdubbed guitar tracks are plainly audible.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:28 pm
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I have found that you need to use a lot of dynamics. Keep your rhythm volume much lower than your lead level. If you keep your rhythm parts sparse, you won't seem to lose much when you go to lead. Your bass player could play chords or busier parts during guitar solos.

Listen to some old live Cream to hear how Jack Bruce covered things during Clapton's solos.

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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:09 am
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Sometimes the bass player can play more
Sometimes adding a fourth ruins the trio.

I once jammed with three guys who were looking to expand their trio
While it was a lot of fun, and we had a lot of overlap musically I think I would have ruined their trio if I'd joined them.

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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:46 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
ZZDoc wrote:
I have my suspicions when it comes to some studio stuff that they may be overdubbing themselves.

+1

Nothing 'suspicious' about it, Doc. Listen to Cream's "SWLABR" (Disraeli Gears), Zeppelin's "Livin' Lovin' Maid" (LZII), or Jimi's "All Along The Watchtower" (Electric Ladyland). The overdubbed guitar tracks are plainly audible.....Arjay

Ditto!! I was trying to be kind for the sake of the faithful.

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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:00 am
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LouisvilleNoob wrote:
Wow guys, thanks for all of the insightful replies. To answer a few of the questions previously asked:

Current effect pedals: only a distortion pedal
Skill level of rhythm section: we are all beginners/novices at best
Type of bass: it has 4 strings ... and that's where my knowledge of bass guitars ends. Let me get back to you.

Like I said, we don't have Carnegie Hall beating down our door so it's not a matter of pleasing a crowd or getting too complex. We are just 3 guys looking for an excuse to drink a few beers and get away from our wives for a few hours and hopefully sound ok in the process.

Bottom line, it sounds like we need to find a 4th friend :)


I would agree, it sounds like you need some more guns. Unless the person currently singing is really dynamic, I would suggest getting a singing with some really good stage presence and another musician.

As to effects: Delay, Chorus, Overdrive and compression are some good pedals to start with.

Also keep the songs uncomplicated at the moment, not lead driven and with lots of energy.

Choose a set that is small and tight at first. Having 10 good songs that sound great because you are a tight unit, is better than 40 songs played really badly.

Lastly: Practice, practice, practice, and did I forget practice?


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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:11 am
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Glad this topic came up. I'm struggling with the same thing; the band I'm in consists of bass, drums, guitar and sax. I'm doing straight chords 95% of the time, but the few times when we try to incorporate a guitar solo, it sounds empty. At moments like these, I wish I could transform into Andy Timmons.


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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:48 am
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A lot of good tips on this thread. For me personally, I play my guitar by myself a lot. If I can carry a tune by myself, including solos, then when I get with a bass player and a drummer, it is actually easier!

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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:46 am
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Xhefri wrote:
For me personally, I play my guitar by myself a lot....

Moi ausi!! Which is why the house band's name is "Majority of One!" :oops:

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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:53 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
ZZDoc wrote:
I have my suspicions when it comes to some studio stuff that they may be overdubbing themselves.

Nothing 'suspicious' about it, Doc. Listen to Cream's "SWLABR" (Disraeli Gears), Zeppelin's "Livin' Lovin' Maid" (LZII), or Jimi's "All Along The Watchtower" (Electric Ladyland). The overdubbed guitar tracks are plainly audible.

Hee-hee - back in the mists of time one of the first numbers I ever learned on the guitar was Jimi's Wind Cries Mary. In addition to all the other difficulties of a teacherless beginner trying to cover a Hendrix number was the fact I didn't at first realise there's at least two guitar lines on that track - he overdubbed the solo on top of the rhythm line that continues throughout the number, and some of that rhythm work is "fleshed out" a bit elsewhere too.

Once you know what's happening it's easy to understand, especially listening on headphones, since the different guitar parts are panned wide in the stereo image. However, back at the start I remember scratching my head a lot, wondering how the heck you were supposed to make all those notes happen at the same time! One of the ma-a-any disadvantages of being self-taught. :lol:

I'm sure Hendrix wouldn't have thought of it as cheating: he was just experimenting with the newish capabilities of recording studios of the time to maximum benefit. And the same is true for so many others, from then right up to the present.

However. Hendrix had no difficulty translating his overdubbed album sound into something a three-piece could deliver on stage. And I'd suggest one of the useful exercises for someone grappling with how to make a guitar-bass-drums line-up work is to listen to the difference between a whole range of artists' album and live recordings. By discovering how they fill the gaps left by the absence of studio overdubs you can really get your mind around how a three-piece unit functions in action.

Happy hunting! - C

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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:04 am
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Ceri wrote:
...listen to the difference between a whole range of artists' album and live recordings. By discovering how they fill the gaps left by the absence of studio overdubs you can really get your mind around how a three-piece unit functions in action.

Happy hunting! - C


This has been the key for me...check out what they do live...tossing in double-stops and little triad chords here and there with an occasional rake-strum to fill in bits of the chord progressions.

Hendrix, SRV, Pete Townsend all come to mind as being great at keeping the appearance of a rhythm going while somehow focusing on working a solo.

In contrast, Clapton, Page and others seemed to rely on a very strong rhythm section to carry the song.

Cheers.

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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:21 am
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MR C, you bring up a great point. When overdubbing started with Les Paul and then mushroomed in the 60s and 70s, it created several dilemmas. One was cool, like wow, how did Jimi get all those tones out of his guitar??? Some were not that familiar with multi-track recording then, at least not the amateurs. But the other dilemma was these groups doing live performances. I remember hearing how the Beatles were hesitant to do some concerts after their heavily muiti-track recorded albums came out. They fear an audience letdown. And then I remember watching the Moody Blues do a live gig in either Germany or Holland on YouTube. It was obvious that they were playing the recorded session over the PA system and would let sinking to the music because it was almost impossible to replicate the sound of some of their songs in a live performance. It made the performance pretty hokey, but to the stoned out people in the audience maybe they didn't know any better!

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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:27 am
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HeyJoe42 wrote:
Hendrix, SRV, Pete Townsend all come to mind as being great at keeping the appearance of a rhythm going while somehow focusing on working a solo.

In contrast, Clapton, Page and others seemed to rely on a very strong rhythm section to carry the song.

Hi Joe: the strong rhythm section thing certainly goes for Townshend too. So much of the sound on a Who song was in fact coming from John Entwistle's "lead" bass style that Pete (he said) thought of himself more as filling out John's playing, rather than John supporting his. That meant he didn't have to occupy so much of the spectrum with his rhythm playing, which in turn meant he could be the "inventor" of power chords just to add grit and oomph to the big sound that was already there. Anyone who ever stood in front of Entwistle's speaker stack certainly knows what the phrase "wall of sound" truly means!

Also, when The Who were moving into a lead guitar section Keith Moon often threw in an especially explosive break on the drums which had the effect of filling any gap where Townshend left off strumming, stomped on his boost/drive pedal and began a line of single notes.

That's exactly the sort of strategy a three-piece can use cleverly to fill holes in the number.

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:35 am
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Xhefri wrote:
I remember hearing how the Beatles were hesitant to do some concerts after their heavily muiti-track recorded albums came out.

'Zactly! Many in those days were a major disappointment live, because they couldn't replicate on stage what they'd done on the album, and it just felt like a pale imitation.

I think the successful live acts, like so many named on this thread, were those that thought of live playing as a fundamentally different thing: the album was just there to provide a starting point for the different but very aggressive and exciting way they'd do the number on stage.

Since Mike mentioned them on another thread, I remember attending a very early Stray Cat's gig, late 1980. Full on action! Didn't cross my mind anything was missing, far as their live sound was concerned! :)

Cheers - C

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