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Post subject: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:01 pm
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Curious to get your all's feedback on this. I play casually with 2 other guys (1 on drums, and the other on bass/vocals). At this point it's nothing more than garage band stuff, but we still like to sound as good as possible. My problem is this: with only one guitar going (me) we have issues when we get to the solos in the songs we are covering. I can either play the individual notes (which sounds empty when you don't have the backing chords overlapping), or play the actual chords (but then the bridge sounds no different than the rest of the song).

Any suggestions on effects pedals or otherwise I can add to layer the sound and make it sound fuller? My first guess would be to use a chorus pedal of sorts, but I'm open to any suggestions or ideas. I am less interested in having a tone that directly mimics the songs we are covering as long as the end product sounds good.

Hopefully this makes sense.


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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:33 pm
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Trio's are a lot of work for everyone. Especially if you're the guitar player and you sing some. Trying to sing, do fills, rhythm, and solos will keep you on your toes all night. I'm looking to get into a band full time and all I've run into the last few months have been trio's. Part of the reason is, it's so hard to get a paid gig that splitting it with an extra person will often make it not worth the hassle.
I wouldn't worry about trying to be superman. Once the solo starts, the rhythm is going to drop out. You can hear that with every live recording of a pro trio like Cream or ZZ Top. The main thing is to play to what the drummer and bass player are doing and hopefully they will try to play to your solo so that it sounds like a group effort.
Effects can help, but using things like Wah or chorus on every song where they're not needed, is not a good sound. I thought about trying a looper. I've never owned one, but I guess if you got pretty good with using one, you could make it fill some of the gaps.

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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:44 pm
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I have done this many times and it take a lot of effort to make things sound good. One thing I have found is "control" on the part of all the players makes or breaks things. I will often start out a tune with a solo that builds into the rhythm section where the bass and drums come in progressively. When playing I often have the bass player and drum queued for a what will happen. The bass player, if talented, will carry a rhythm and then one can launch into a solo. I have my settings on my down on my amp and guitar so when I play rhythm, the volume remains the same when I go into a solo. This makes up for the drop in volume between the two. Often times I will start out with a solo, in the middle of a song, with single notes that build into multiple notes and then back into full rhythm. Really it takes a good bassist and drummer to pull it off. Oh, and then loud always helps! LOL

In one 3 piece band I was in I played through two 200 watt amps, both with 4 x 10 cabs. I had these on both sides of us in a stereo configuration. Really sounded full and LOUD!

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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:09 pm
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You can go in 2 different directions with this. I've used both. Depending on the level ability of your bands mates, you can do the jazz/blues direction (Jimmie Hendrix Exp., SRV & Double Trouble, Led Zeppelin and Cream). These bands rely heavily on the lead guitarist who are dynamic players and a very strong rhythm section. Or...

You could go the Police and U2 direction. These bands rely heavily on a lead guitarists who are know how to use effects, have strong rhythm and have strong rhythm sections. They build atmosphere and depth to the guitar without using a lot lead guitar licks. Tones, colors and notes are more nuanced.
I also agree with Xhefri.
The bottom line: If your rhythm is section is weak, it will not make a difference how great your leads are, the sound will fall flat. In fact, a good rhythm section could play by itself with a single lead.


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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:04 am
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D1vAugGXoM

Greg Koch doesn't appear to even use a wide array of stuff/effects to make the 3-piece band work during his solo. Maybe what you ought to do is record yourselves playing so you may hear where your sound is lacking. What effects are you using now?


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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:25 am
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I love 3 pieces, personally the space you get in the solo sections is what makes it for me. Though i`ll admit it means everyone has to be doing their part very well to leave yourself as exposed as you always do....

It has its upsides and its downsides, although you miss out on the rhythm guitar parts under solo`s, you CAN shout a chord change to the bass player to try a change and actually jam in the solo sections rather than having to have everything so rehearsed and samey every time. I dont think zeppelin or cream could have done what they did with another musician involved in the mix.

3 pieces are great!

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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:56 am
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I was thinking about this again last night. Man 3 piece bands are a lot of work. I remember after playing 3 piece for a while then got together with keyboards, 2 guitars, bass and drums, it was like a breeze! I could actually stop playing from time to time and everyone kept everything going. Do that in a 3 piece and one 3rd of the sound stops!! :shock:

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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:39 pm
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TheChrisBlaze wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D1vAugGXoM

Greg Koch doesn't appear to even use a wide array of stuff/effects to make the 3-piece band work during his solo. Maybe what you ought to do is record yourselves playing so you may hear where your sound is lacking. What effects are you using now?


.......Not faulting your choice of guitar player but isn't it kind of like using Einstein as a source example for a question about arithmetic :?: :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:31 pm
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Soloing in a trio and avoiding a perceived dropout has a lot to do with note choice to support the harmony and judicious usage of chordal stabs and double stops. A good knowledge of the chord changes and outlining those changes in your solos really helps avoid the dropout effect, if you craft your solos so that when playing alone you can hear the chord changes then that will help big time. This is very different to the way a lot of players solo by just rambling on a minor pentatonic scale, such a player for example will play a Blues in A and just using the key's minor pentatonic they will never use a C# note behind the A chord or an F# note behind the D chord, those players may sound OK in a larger lineup but will cause an empty dropout in a trio. By using "guide notes" like that you are guiding the listeners ears and their brain does unconsciously fill in the missing bits for you and they will perceive a more complete sound, it sounds "out there" I know but it is a real effect. Simple stuff that is hard to master but makes a huge difference, same goes for the usage of space, by nature there can be plenty of it in a trio and great players know how to use it for effect.

Players like Hendrix and SRV were masters of supporting the harmony with chordal fills/stabs and double stops like 3rds and 6ths to fatten and support the chord changes, it is all through their solos. Even though they sometimes both lent heavily on the minor pentatonic scale you can always hear the changes even when you listen to their solos in isolation. That is a big factor in trio playing.

This of course assumes the Rhythm Section are doing their job properly as well.

Snowy


Last edited by No457 Snowy on Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:10 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
TheChrisBlaze wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D1vAugGXoM

Greg Koch doesn't appear to even use a wide array of stuff/effects to make the 3-piece band work during his solo. Maybe what you ought to do is record yourselves playing so you may hear where your sound is lacking. What effects are you using now?


.......Not faulting your choice of guitar player but isn't it kind of like using Einstein as a source example for a question about arithmetic :?: :wink:

I don't know. The YouTube video was a good example of control, excellent bass playing who kept a rhythm going and increase volume when he went to solo. Control was seen when the band went soft and his solo took on a more precise tone. All an excellent example of the band being in tune with the guitarist and working together to get a sound. Good guitar player with some nice chops. That always helps too! :wink: Really a pretty simple tune. They just know how to work it! :D

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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:24 pm
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paris wrote:
In fact, a good rhythm section could play by itself with a single lead.

I think this is the clue to how so many three piece bands work. At least as important as what the guitarist is doing is having a bass player and drummer who can shoulder the burden and fill out the gaps. It's a fundamentally different chemistry than in bigger bands.

A nice boost or drive pedal is pretty handy for solos, too. :)

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:25 pm
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What kind of bass does the bassist play? If he played something with more mid/treble presence like a Jazz Bass, It could fill in the emptiness when you are soloing.


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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:21 pm
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The middle part of last night's show (full review in lounge area) was just Brian Setzer, his bassist and drummer. No pedals were used but he did have an Eventide echo-thing on top of his Fender Bassman which was mic'd.

Great gritty thick leads to simply stunning riffage in sweet clean tones.

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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:12 pm
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Never liked trio work because I always feel like something is missing especially if doing vocals.

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Post subject: Re: Playing solos in a 3-piece band
Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:56 pm
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Wow guys, thanks for all of the insightful replies. To answer a few of the questions previously asked:

Current effect pedals: only a distortion pedal
Skill level of rhythm section: we are all beginners/novices at best
Type of bass: it has 4 strings ... and that's where my knowledge of bass guitars ends. Let me get back to you.

Like I said, we don't have Carnegie Hall beating down our door so it's not a matter of pleasing a crowd or getting too complex. We are just 3 guys looking for an excuse to drink a few beers and get away from our wives for a few hours and hopefully sound ok in the process.

Bottom line, it sounds like we need to find a 4th friend :)


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