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Post subject: Nitro VS. Poly finishes is always a good subject.
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:38 pm
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I've read that nitrocellulose lacquer gives better string vibration than Poly finish. I prefer the look of nitro and love the way it ages. Yet Fender is using Poly on even their most Expensive Custom Shop guitars. Does anyone know why ? I believe Poly is more durable and thicker. Framus Guitars is using an "ultra thin skin water based UV coating". How do they do that? Later.


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Post subject: Re: Nitro VS. Poly finishes is always a good subject.
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:40 pm
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I prefer the feel and tone I've gotten from my nitro finished guitars. Thinner the better....


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Post subject: Re: Nitro VS. Poly finishes is always a good subject.
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:31 pm
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rednefceleb wrote:
Framus Guitars is using an "ultra thin skin water based UV coating". How do they do that? Later.


Spray on liquid glass.

Pretty soon we could see guitars with Nanolia!

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Post subject: Re: Nitro VS. Poly finishes is always a good subject.
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:37 pm
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Again? Ya know … this forum has a search feature. Just sayin'.

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Post subject: Re: Nitro VS. Poly finishes is always a good subject.
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:46 pm
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rednefceleb wrote:
I've read that nitrocellulose lacquer gives better string vibration than Poly finish. I prefer the look of nitro and love the way it ages. Yet Fender is using Poly on even their most Expensive Custom Shop guitars. Does anyone know why ? I believe Poly is more durable and thicker. Framus Guitars is using an "ultra thin skin water based UV coating". How do they do that? Later.


Poly is cheaper, more durable, and dries faster. It makes production faster, and the finish longer lasting. That is the reason.

Water base is earth friendly.


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Post subject: Re: Nitro VS. Poly finishes is always a good subject.
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:52 pm
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Prefer Nitro. Feels more comfortable on the neck and wears in nice. Also prefer the the look of a Nitro finish. Poly's cool and wouldn't hesitate getting one and haven't really noticed any significant difference between them tonally. But, if given the choice, I'll go with the Nitro.

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Post subject: Re: Nitro VS. Poly finishes is always a good subject.
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:51 am
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They both have their advantages and disadvantages.

I think tonal differences are marginal, though I have no doubt they exist.

Nitro is said to allow the wood to breath (a double-edged sword if you think about it). I believe it looks better new, but ages much less gracefully. It is more easily damaged, but more easily repaired.

Poly seals the wood (also a double-edged sword). Doesn't look as good new, but ages more gracefully. It is less easily damaged, but much more difficult to repair.

Nitro is a more expensive finish in both Labor and Material (esp. with the equipment necessary for working w/ VOCs), so the end product bears a higher cost. Poly is less expensive, which the end product also reflects.

I own 3 Nitro guitars. The finish on my FSR Ltd. Ed. Am. Vtg. '57 Stratocaster failed in the first 3 mos., and Fender is in the process of producing a replacement body for it. My Heritage H-535 is Nitro and I find myself handling it much more gingerly than my Poly guitars. My Martin DC-1E is Nitro. But, I find myself wanting to see it age as I really like a nice patina on an accoustic, so I don't handle it with Kid Gloves as I do my Heritage (or my Stratocaster once it's repaired).

I'm much less paranoid with my Poly guitars, even my Telebration Telecaster, because I believe they'll simply stand up to more.

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: Nitro VS. Poly finishes is always a good subject.
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:37 am
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Nitro has it's place as a guitar finish, though I'm not a fan. Other than guitars it's about useless for anything else. It's expensive only because hardly anyone now manufactures it and it's very toxic to people handling it, and the environment. If your old enough to remember 1960's GM car finishes you'll remember nitro cracked, faded and was lucky to look decent through the first summer you had the car. Back then it was cheap, forgiving to apply, dried fast and made for decent repairs by semi skilled painters...those were the reasons it was used. I remember buying a new european car and the paint was faded in the few months it took to ship and sit in the dealers lot before I purchased it. Clear nitro does yellow nicely though on a guitar if it doesn't wear off first.


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Post subject: Re: Nitro VS. Poly finishes is always a good subject.
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:39 am
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rednefceleb wrote:
Fender is using Poly on even their most Expensive Custom Shop guitars. Does anyone know why ?

Hi rednefceleb: because urethane and other modern finishes are superior to nitrocellulose in every functional respect. The only reason anyone still uses nitro on guitars is player superstition: customers want it and are prepared to pay, therefore guitar companies meet that demand.

rednefceleb wrote:
Framus Guitars is using an "ultra thin skin water based UV coating". How do they do that? Later.

Can't give you chapter and verse but that sounds like a modern water-based acrylic paint which is formulated to cure fast under UV light. Such paints have been standard in the automotive industry for ages. Fender also use a UV cured urethane on most of their US Standards and Deluxes and all their necks except Vintage Reissues, though I don't know if it is a water-based one or not. Using a water base is obviously less toxic than other solvents and therefore better for the factory workers and the environment.

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: Nitro VS. Poly finishes is always a good subject.
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:55 pm
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Here's what Warmoth has to say about it:

Quote:
Urethane is our primary finishing material though we do use several thin coats of polyester as a base coat to fill the wood grain. The process is first to fill the grain, then the color coat is applied. Finally the top coats are laid down before final sanding and buffing. If the body is dyed, these colors are put on the raw wood prior to the base coat application. There seems to be much controversy about finishing materials and poly seems much maligned… Without sinking into the depths of this debate, let us just say that our finishes seldom exceed twelve thousandths on an inch in thickness. For the lacquer fans, there are others that spray this material though the cost is generally at least double for a very questionable sonic difference.

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Post subject: Re: Nitro VS. Poly finishes is always a good subject.
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:03 pm
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Pretty much the same thing Deviser does with it's finish.


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Post subject: Re: Nitro VS. Poly finishes is always a good subject.
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:16 pm
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I prefer the feel of nitro . My 335 and my 59 AVRI Thinskin both have nitro , as do my Martins. I dont believe there is any advantage in tone to nitro. It does wear more natural though. It has already been stated why manufacturers like it. My American Standard has poly and I have no problem with it at all. Its almost bulletproof as far as a finish goes. But something about the feel of nitro that I like.


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Post subject: Re: Nitro VS. Poly finishes is always a good subject.
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:22 pm
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I like the sound of nitro better........not any sonic difference in the sound produced by the guitar, just the sound of the pronunciation of the word "nitro", it sounds cooler, and more dangerous than saying "poly". :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Nitro VS. Poly finishes is always a good subject.
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:57 pm
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Blinkers wrote:
Pretty much the same thing Deviser does with it's finish.


On which guitars? Momose or the high-end Bacchus?

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Post subject: Re: Nitro VS. Poly finishes is always a good subject.
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:07 am
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http://home.provide.net/~cfh/fenderc.html
This is a good link that discusses Nito vs poly the economics behind saving money for Fender and the yellowing of Nito and it also discusses the many colors used
I thought it was interesting but that's just me
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