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Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:14 pm
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I would like to thank everybody for all the suggestions and advice that I’ve received, it is greatly appreciated. I went and researched every single amp mentioned plus talked to a few sales people. There was so much that I didn’t know and/or understood that I had to take a crash course in “Introduction to Amps 101.” Even with the superficial knowledge I gained I still felt overwhelmed with all the various options, features and brands. So I decided to look at it from a different point of view.

Please bear with me as I try to explain. Remember when we were first learning math we memorized our multiplication tables and did everything long hand. We had to show our work because that was the only way to prove that we were learning the basics and doing it correctly. I wasn’t allowed to use a calculator until passing 1st semester midterm with at least an 80% in Algebra II. We were forced to learn how and why before we were allowed to use/take the short cuts that calculators provide for us.

When we built our new house last fall we decided to install a home theater system. Do we go with the 5.1 surround with standard speakers or spend twice the money and get 7.1 surround with upgraded speakers? Since we had always had just the "stereo" sound that comes with TV’s today, we figured that anything would be a tremendous improvement. So we saved big $$$ and just went with the 5.1 with the standard speakers (applied the money saved to installing a home security system), we can always upgrade later if our sound appreciation dictates. All the equipment is good quality, each manufacturer of the components have a great reputation so we should get many years of enjoyment.

I generated a spreadsheet listing all the amps suggested enabling me to compare all the features side by side plus a pros/cons column with info extracted from consumer reviews. Taking all that into account and what I learned from my “Introduction to Amps 101” I was able to come up with my list of minimum features required. I think it is very important for her to learn how and why she is getting the particular sound without taking any short cuts. That is why I stayed away from “built in voices” but made sure that it had an effects loop for future expansion. Two channels with fully independent controls were very important for versatility. Foot switchable boost and channel selection was nice for convenience. Tubes would be great, but at this point in time didn’t think she would really be able to appreciate the difference between solid state and tubes, plus tubes = more $.

As it turned out, the Bandit was the first one I found that was the closest to what I thought was necessary and do the job minimally as I understood things. At least until she will be able to learn enough to find out what she really wants/needs. I hope that I didn’t offend any one that gave me advice because I wound up selecting something else. But when the opportunity presented itself for the money involved I really didn’t think that I could commit a major blow it at this early stage. In 6 months and 1 week from today I hope that you will welcome another Strat player into your fold with the same open arms policy that you have shown her Dad. Thanks again for everyone’s input and I’ll keep you posted if you would like.


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Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:27 pm
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firebirds dad wrote:
We had to show our work because that was the only way to prove that we were learning the basics and doing it correctly. I wasn’t allowed to use a calculator until passing 1st semester midterm with at least an 80% in Algebra II. We were forced to learn how and why before we were allowed to use/take the short cuts that calculators provide for us.


Now I feel old. We had to show our work not only because it showed we understood the process, but because there weren't any calculators yet! Consumer calculators didn't exsist until I was well into highschool and they were like $400. No one was allowed to use them, even if by some chance they could actually afford one.

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Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:28 pm
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hey firebirds dad you did more to research this purchase than most people do before buying a house !!!

Gotta say you get my vote for devoted dad of the month.

Tone freaks can get a bit carried away with our advice, so sorry if it all seemed a bit over the top, we are about as O.C.D. as anyone you might have met.

any old way, tell her all of us Fender guys and gals are standing by for any questions she might have on her adventure we call guitar playing.

She will want a new amp some day, to try to sound like her guitar heros and when that happens take a deep breath and come on back and we will do our best to behave.


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Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:09 pm
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Location: Rochester, NY
It might be too late, but I have to recommend the Epiphone Valve Junior half-stack for an amp.

5W tube head, and all it has is a volume knob.

It's also one of the most modified amps in existence- there are entire websites devoted to mods to the head. Not that it doesn't sound great stock... from 7:00 to 12:00, it's a classic clean tube sound. From 1:00 to 5:00, it will overdrive.

(You have to use clock positions because there are no markings on the knob)

I play my Epiphone Casino and Fender Deluxe Players Strat through it. Plus, it's only $250 for the half-stack.


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Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:31 pm
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firebirds dad wrote:
Well I hoping that . . . . I mean Santa believes that he and his family of elves might be able to pull as much as $1,500 for this effort. The confirmed contributions already put them 1/3 of the way there with 6 months still to go. And he believes the goal is obtainable especially when both Grandpa elves see a taping of her last public performance, which was half of her final grade. She was grouped with 2 other
classmates with the assignment being to compose a song and perform that song during her school's Mayfest Performing Arts celebration.



I hate to burst your bubble... Santa.. $1,500 will do better than you think... <g>

My HSS FSR "Special Edition" Stratocaster cost less than $400 on an after Christmass sale... brand new WITH a gig bag<g> (all those acronyms mean: "HSS" Humbucker , Single, Single pickup... as special way of equipping and wiring factory custom pickups... the "FSR" is a Factory Short Run where they only made a few... from 1 to a few hundred depending on their whim)

It's a bit fancy being completely decked out in black and chrome.. all metal with no plastic pick guards or knobs... and a 60th Fender Company Anniversary model to boot... brand new... and on sale for 50% off at the end of the year... The folks in the plant in Mexico had a great day when they made mine...

Usually the Standard Stratocasters are more reasonably priced than Special Editions...

I picked up a Fender Princeton Stereo Chorus amp last month (used, on consignment) for another $250... I haven't even found any scratches on the amp... and only a little wear on the pedal switch for the effects...<g>

You can spend a LOT more on instruments... but getting a good Fender Standard Strat (or "Fat Strat" with the HSS configuration) doesn't have to be expensive if you're willing to shop and not accept the price on the tag as the final word...

There are really good guitars out there for $600 retail... (and bad ones for over $1,000) What's really important is getting one that fits her and pleases her...

Amps will break the bank if you let them, but they come in three basic catagories... practice amps, recording amps and stage amps...

Practice amps tend to be minimalistic, not many features or effects and very reasonably priced...

Stage amps have to be large (loud) enough to fill a room... and can be very expensive, especially in higher power levels or tube circuits...

Recording amps, a category I see as being in the middle... have a moderate power level, some effects and features that are nice to have AND some sort of line level output that allows them to be feed into a studio mixer or PA system (like in a a concert venue<g>)

I tend to favor the latter, since they are plenty big enough for small gigs, usually have decent effects and can scale up to any sized venue by feeding them to the sound system serving the room...

The best value of the moderate price amps I'd recommend is the Fender Frontman 212 http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=2316500010,

It's got almost too much power, but that means that the effects don't have to beat up the speakers to get the sound she's looking for... Actually, with 100 watts it's able to fill a pretty good sized room with sound... and at $350-$400 it's a good value that she won't outgrow too soon... if ever (I'm 55 and my main guitar amp is a similar unit running an external effects unit<g>)

It's light on effects, only having a distortion/reverb built in... which lets her get a good outboard pedal/effects box instead of being limited to what the factory decides ought to be installed in the amp... (and you payed a little less for stuff she might not want in there...) The "pre out" connection can feed an external effects unit or be run into the room's sound system...

The "clean" sound is terrific... I've auditioned this amp with two of my guitars and found it lets the sound of the guitar through unchanged... and the effects are pretty decent even if I'm not a distorted/heavy metal kinda guy<g>

If you or rather Santa was a bit careful she could have a nice musician's music/accessory case, a good tuner/metronome and some other nice goodies to go with the new guitar<g>

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Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:00 pm
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May I suggest this exact guitar:
[url=http://www.fender.com/products//search.php?partno=0110400712]Image
American Standard Stratocaster® Candy Cola[/url]
(Her color with a Rosewood fret boaord instead of maple, the rosewood ages with more grace in my opinion).
And for the amp:
[url=http://www.fender.com/products//search.php?partno=0213205000]Image
Fender Blues Jr[/url]
This amp is the best, take it from a seasoned player, I love that little amp. It's worth every penny, esp for recording with awesome tube tones.

This is going to be a timeless guitar to her trust me. Its the first REAL DEAL & its from Dad or whatever. Thats the kinda strat you fight dragons to protect. My father also bought me my first real guitar... I still have it with the repaired broken neck and all... lol
It was a HAMER Chapparell... I think u get my point though

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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:05 am
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Looks like we will upgrade from the American Standard Candy Cola Maple to the Vintage Hot Rod '57. She has played one and said that it would be her ideal guitar, if she could ever have one :wink: Got to doing some more learning and think the upgrade will be worth it for her. I stopped by our favorite music store last night on the way home from work and have everything set up so to speak, all I need to do is give them 50% down and they will order it.


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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:32 am
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If this is her first electric why not start her out on a nice new Made in Mexico strat or Tele...Let her try both and see which one she likes better. A G dec amp would be a fine learning toll or even a Fender Frontman 25w with Reverb and you'll have spent well under a thousand and you can save the rest for college


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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:31 am
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Just a few things:

- Take customer reviews with a grain of sand (or whatever the saying is); there's no way to know how "educated" these people are or how much experience they have with the product. For example, I was reading a review on a HiWatt amp and a guy gave it a crummy review because "it doesn't have a lot of effects"....I mean, seriously? I don't know what most think, but the way I've been "educated," on-board digital effects is a big "no-no," as it's a waste of many (in most instances). They are of significantly lower quality than any "add-on" pedals that can be bought (personally, I prefer analog effects) and how often are you really going to be using Tremolo? I don't even have Reverb on my main amp ('59 Bassman).

- Also, for a beginner, you'll probably want to stick with a solid-state amp, 25-30 watts or less (I'd say 10 watt minimum). Solid-states give you what you need at an affordable price and require little maintainence. Tube amps are great, and I personally regret not getting one sooner, but they may be a bit "much" for a beginner. From another point-of-view, starting on a tube would get the beginner used to the sensitive touch-dynamics of the tubes amps and help tighten and refine their playing (tube amps are very unforgiving in terms of "sloppy" playing).

- Another thing to keep in mind is that, as a beginner, her "musical-orientation" will most likely change, so spending the big-bucks on a great Strat may not be the best idea. For example, when I started getting serious about guitar, I got a BC Rich Warlock guitar and Line6 Spyder II amp, which suited my "needs" in terms of becoming the next Kirk Hammet. Needless to say, I was playing a lot of hard rock and metal. That soon changed when I went to my first BB King concert. Even 2 years ago, I once again changed my intents and began working on playing Blues Slide Guitar and followed that up by selling the Warlock and dropping $1700 on a '70 - '72 Gibson SG. Then, that Summer, I was introduced to Stevie Ray Vaughan. In November, I picked out my first Strat and outfitted it with Texas Specials. Currently, I'm on a David Gilmour roll, so I picked up a new Strat and outfitted it with EMG-SAs and the EXG & SPC Controls. What I'm getting at is that the beginner at hand may decide that the "strat-sound" does not fit their needs in terms of the intended pursuit. When that day comes, would you rahter be out $400 or $1200? Then again, finding the "right" guitar is the most important endeavor of playing and a price simply cannot be fixed to it...if the '57 is "the one," then I guess you're stuck =]

That's all for now 8)

\m/

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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:46 am
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Very good point and if you do decide on a MIM fender make sure she plays several bacuse the quality on the Mexican made guitars vary alot more than on the American made guitars and have her find the one that sings to her. I also think the Fender frontman 25 is a great first amp for an aspiring student. You can always upgrade from there. Make sure you buy new strings with that guitar when you buy it and they'll need to be put on as soon as you get home. Try to find a music store that offers free set ups with purchase and have her tell the guitar technician exactly how she wants her guitar set up. If she's been playing acoustic she'll be able to explain to him what she needs. You'll have invested well under $1000 dollars and you'll have a GREAT guitar


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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:51 am
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The Fronman 25R is a great lil amp; I picked one up 4 years ago to replace the Ibanez 10 watt I got in a "JumpStart" kit. I even used it the last couple years in the High School Jazz Ensemble for practices and performances.

MIMs are very hit-and-miss, as lemonade pointed out; personally, I really don't like the Stanards, the Deluxe Players, or the Highway Ones. I do, however, love my Classic Players '50s. For me, I just don't like the feel of the unfinished necks...

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'59 Bassman Ltd


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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:03 am
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Although you don't like the American Standards almost everyone else does. There a Fantastic guitar with an AMAZING neck but I think it would be overkill for a first electric. The MIM standard is (IMHO) the BEST strater electric on the planet and one she can really grow with because they are great guitar and while you don't like them the Vast majority of us LOVE our American standards.


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Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:34 pm
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Just to bring things up to date here. The amp has been decided upon especially since it has been purchased and currently is in hiding at the neighbor's house. It is a Peavey Bandit 112, even though I got numerous suggestions all of which were greatly appreciated, I couldn't pass up the price plus the amp checked out to be in perfect functional condition. If she finds she needs/wants more then she can figure out what that may be on her own and at her own cost. At least she has something usable to get her started. The design on her custom strap has been finalized. It is going to be a 3" wide, padded, fixed length strap in antiqued ox blood red with her prefered shortened name appearing in an antiqued white on the front. The letters will be quilted, not filigreed (spelling?) or carved into the strap. Meaning they will appear to be raised up above the front surface of the strap and the letters are in a "musical font" of my own design. Got a nice little break on price since I provided all the artwork. So now I just need to send $$ to Julius Medina at Medina Made so he can make the strap and I have until early September to get 50% of the guitar price into the store that we are working with to ensure that we get the exact model delivered on time for Christmas. Updates to follow unless I'm asked not to do so.


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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:25 pm
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Hey everybody, it's been 5+ months and I thought I owed an update for those that cared. I decided against the '57 Vintage Hot Rod, descretion (sp?) became the better part of expenditure. Especially when over a 6 week period we had 3 ER visits which resulted in 2 broken arms, one of which required surgery. Nothing that a plate and a handful of screws couldn't fix, and I'm healing up nicely thank you. From July to October there were numerous visits to music stores. Getting her Tokamini and her Seagull checked/inspected/addressed etc. During each visit I was able to send her to the electrics to spend her time while I tended to $$ and chat with the folks doing the work. She hung tough with her desire on the Strat and the maple fret board, she knew what she liked. We were able to get the Candy-Cola Maple. The best part about my story is what happened Christmas morning. Things didn't exactly pan out the way I would have liked but I honestly was dreaming for perfection. I got my wife a new cam-corder for Christmas and my ideal situation was to have the Boss, new cam-corder in hand ready to capture the moment my daughter came down the stairs and saw her guitar. Well, the daughter got down stairs first and . . . . well those 10-15 seconds of her first seeing her new guitar will be imprinted in my memory banks for life. She whipped around the corner into the living room and stopped dead in her tracks just a couple feet from the guitar and amp. She stared at them for a couple seconds and then said "Now that is bitchin". She rested her hands on her knees, bending over to check things out, looking as though she was afraid to even touch it. Then she ran her fingers over the strings and said "Cool, it's even in tune". At that point she promptly sat down, hooked up and started playing. One thing I did was upgrade to the "classic tweed" case from the molded/preformed plastic case that came with it. The place we got it from gives life-time set up and inspection with the purchase of a set of strings. They upgraded the strings one step and the guy we have been working with of so long set it up based on what he as heard/seen her play. He said that any time we are ready, just give him a call and he will set aside time to have a one-on-one with my daughter to better set things up for her after she has had time to play/learn the set up she wants. Thanks again for everyone's help and assistance. I'll be showing this thread to her and let her decide if she would like to join your group, I'm sure that you will have a new member before too long. Take care and hope everyone had as wonderful a Christmas as I did and that the new year shines strong and bright for all.


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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:59 pm
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That is awesome and thanks for the update. Can't wait to have her chime in....

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