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Post subject: 1st purchase advice
Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 9:06 am
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I need some advice and I’m sure I asking the right people. A bit of history first just to let you know where we’re at. Christmas of 2005 I got my daughter . . . . I mean Santa got my daughter a beginner acoustic guitar set up. Not wanting to invest much in case she didn’t take to it. Every lesson in care and maintenance to be learned was learned and nearly every mistake that could be made has been witnessed with “Old Blue”. “Old Blue” went south so fast that she had to use her instructor’s guitar for her school concert this past October.

Coming home from work this past Thanksgiving eve I heard a very reputable music store in our area was closing their guitar section to concentrate on their pianos and organs. Everything must go at 40-50% off. So we are waiting for them to open up the store the following Friday. Three hours later we walk out the door with her “Baby”. She was now the proud owner of a Seagull Artist Cameo CW acoustic with EBM Quantum II electronics. Now she has “Old Blue” to keep at school for class and her “Baby” to keep at home for practice and performances.

The condition of “Old Blue” became terminal, the buzzards were circling and landing fast. So we went out Memorial Day to find her a new 2nd guitar. As you have now surmised she has obviously taken to playing. Well 4 hours later her Takamine EG440C-STRQ with TP4T electronics is getting a courtesy set up. While “Redd” was on the rack she asked if she could go check out the electrics. “Sure, no problem we have about 30 minutes so knock yourself out” I tell her. She deliberately goes right for the Stratocaster, plugs in and goes to town.

As I watch her turn all kinds of knobs and dials, flipping switches every which way to get the right sound/affect she’s after for the song she wants to play I see a twinkle in her eye and a wicked little smile. On the ride home we talk about the 12 string guitars she played then I turn our conversation to the electrics. The long and short of it is that she would love to have an electric and if she could have one it would need to be a Stratocaster. Why, because they fit and she likes ‘em. Good enough for me, I’m just a Dad, what do I know?

Now my musical talent and knowledge extends to being able to hook up and play a mean stereo. Come this Christmas she will have been playing for 3 years and there is rarely a day that passes where she doesn’t’ play for at least an hour. So as a Christmas present I’m thinking . . . . . I mean Santa was thinking of getting her a Stratocaster and amp. Santa has already talked to his extended family of elves and they all agree that if they pool their monetary contributions she could/should have a nice wad of cash to find what she wants at a great “After Christmas Sale”.

I figure she already knows what she wants in regard to appearance and neck profile. Where I need advice is with electronics. I haven’t a clue about pickups or amps. The sky is not the limit but I don’t want to get anything that has known issues and/or is too limiting. At this point in time I’m thinking . . . . . I mean Santa’s thinking that since the amp will be for home use it doesn’t need to be all that powerful yet still be a quality unit that will last and an extra bell or whistle wouldn’t hurt. Any help would be greatly appreciated and I apologize for a very lengthy first post. Oh, and I’m very proud to say that yesterday she aced her Guitar 2 class final.


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Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 11:56 am
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Sounds like that young lady is going the course and has earned a worthwhile instrument. The better the guitar, the longer it will last her. High enough quality and it is a lifetime investment.

You are going to get more advice here than you know what to do with. So just give us the vital piece of information first. How much of the green and folding are we allowed to spend?

Go, Firebird!


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Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 12:38 pm
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Well I hoping that . . . . I mean Santa believes that he and his family of elves might be able to pull as much as $1,500 for this effort. The confirmed contributions already put them 1/3 of the way there with 6 months still to go. And he believes the goal is obtainable especially when both Grandpa elves see a taping of her last public performance, which was half of her final grade. She was grouped with 2 other classmates with the assignment being to compose a song and perform that song during her school's Mayfest Performing Arts celebration.


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Post subject: Regarding your dilemma...
Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 12:44 pm
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You're in a pickle, my brother.

Depending what kind of green you're going to let go of, you can get basically whatever she wants—with a Strat, the options are almost limitless.

But the main questions are these:

What kind of music is she creating?
What tone is she seeking?
What does she listen to?

A Stratocaster with a good small tube amp can make almost any form of music—the main magic is in the fingers and 'twixt the ears.

However, if she wants more distortion or some modulation, she’ll have to look into an effect pedal or two.

My personal setup works for most any form of music (I play Texas Roadhouse music; blues + rock + outlaw country=Texas Roadhouse), but it also took me several thousand dollars and several years of tweaking knobs and researching equipment to get my setup to where I want it—with some false starts and poorly chosen paths here and there.

As far as an amp—I really think you can’t go wrong with a Fender Blues Junior.
15 tube-driven watts, so it’s loud enough to crank up and get snotty but won’t drive you out of the house. She could also use it within a small-to-medium live venue for performing without mic’ing the amp, as long as she isn’t going for pristine clean tones (it will eventually overdrive at some point—but that’s a good thing!).
Crate’s V-series amps are pretty nice, too, and you can get more watts for the buck, too (Billy F. Gibbons of ZZ Top has used these amps in the past few years, especially live).

Also, regarding power ratings on amplifiers; TUBE WATTS ARE LOUDER THAN SOLID-STATE WATTS. I don’t know why, but a 15 to 20 watt tube amp is infinitely louder than a 30 watt solid-state (and/or digital) amp. I have owned several different kinds of amps and played through dozens more, and this has always proven true.

Tell us what kind of music she is making, and then we can get more specific about which Stratocaster would start her on the right direction.

BTW, thank you for supporting your daughter's aspirations...there's too much sexism amongst musicians.
As my six-year-old daughter says, "Girls rock better than boys because we don't stink." Due to the size of her hands, she is the proud owner of Squier Strat Mini, which she usually plays through whatever amp is handy (usually my little Pignose, so she can carry it around the house). She's sticking to it, and the lessons are going great.

Screamin’ Armadillo
8)


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Post subject:
Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 8:15 am
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Her music taste is wide and vast, from America to ZZ Top, from CSN&Y to SRV, from Ray Charles to Harry Connick Jr. Probably best stated she likes a bit of everything plus an appreciation and respect of the best artists of all music types. The only stuff she doesn’t like and/or can’t at least tolerate for a while is Punk and Rap. We have made it a point to introduce all of our children to all types of music (even some things we may not care for), you never know what you may like or dislike until you listen to it.

Her current playing style is beastly strumming with complex chord changes with some intricate picking thrown in just because she can. I say that because it basically describes the song she and her partners wrote for their final. She doesn’t limit herself to that though, she will play anything she can or wants to. The traditional Saturday afternoon serenade she plays for me while I’m fixing dinner is better than any juke box. She might go from a Beatles ballad to “Stairway To Heaven” to Eric Clapton’s “Tears in Heaven” to “Classical Gas” then on goes to capo so she can sing and she just keeps playing.

I honestly think that she is still working on what “tone” she is seeking. Right now mastering a new chord (not just playing it but getting into it and out of it cleanly during a song), learning a new song either by tabs or CD, any new technique she and apply just puts her on cloud nine. So I easily see the “magic in her fingers and ‘twixt the ears” getting stringer as time goes by. As I mentioned earlier, Santa currently is about 1/3 of the way to his $1500 minimum target.

I know a salesperson will sell you anything you want and/or anything they can. I’m hoping . . . . I mean Santa is hoping that with all of your help he can go in knowing what is probably going to be the wisest and most versatile choice. She really loves to play and there is a whole lot worse things that she could be getting involved with rather than continuing to grow as a musician and pursuing a career as a music teacher.


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Post subject:
Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 8:50 am
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I 've got 3 doughter. I know what You feels :wink:


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Post subject: Standard & a Jr.
Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:02 am
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I agree that the Blues Jr. is a wonderful amp.

http://www.fender.com/products//search. ... 0213205000

It is perfect amp. for home (studio and/or practice) and small gigs. I have worked with Blues musicians who have performed with the Jr. It will also work well with stomp boxes (if somebody so desires). The tube sound takes the edge off any stomp box (guitar pedal).

As far as a Strat., an American Standard should do the job. They have revamped the line this year and have made subtle refinements to an American Icon. Great tone, performance, & a nice case...hence the name, the Standard.

Here is very cool link with a video story (Jeff Beck starts first)...

http://www.fender.com/makehistory/

The list prices for both of these products will exceed Santa's posted budget. Though, keep in mind these are suggested list prices. You should be able to get close or under the wire at a reasonable dealer.


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Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 12:23 pm
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For $1500, I'd suggest a MIM Standard Strat and a Blackheart Handsome Devil Amp. That'll take you to about $1100 after you throw in a case, some new strings, and a strap.

The Handsome Devil is a tube amp with tons of versatility. However, they tend to be on backorder, 'cuz Blackheart has had troubles keeping up with demand.


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Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 1:48 pm
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Any good Strat that she likes will be fine.

The best beginner's amp that I see on the market is either the Super CHamp XD (with 10" speaker and 15 watts) or the Vibro CHamp XD (with 8" speaker and 5 watts). both have tons of DSP amp voices and effects, just exactly the sort of thing a player that is exploring the sound of the electric guitar needs. I think a straight 15-watt tube amp is not only too loud for home use, but not really versatile enough for someone who is discovering the incredible range of tones the electric guitar offers.

So you don't need to spend $1,500. There are lots of great Strats in the $700 range (Hiway One, Deluxe Players, Classic 50s and 60s, the Robert Cray, the Jimmie Vaughn and the polka-dot Buddy Guy), the Super Champ sells for 3 bills, so a grand even is plenty to set her up with a really exciting, playable rig that will fuel her curiosity for years.

The best thing you could do is to let her pick out the guitar. Nothing keeps you motivated like the guitar that you really, really wanted.


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Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 3:11 pm
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as far as amps ,what about getting a g-dec..
pretty good amp for learning...


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Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:53 am
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Stratocasters are a bueatiful thing, my freind. In my opinion, it is the most versatile electric ever invented.

That said, I agree with the small tube amp and Mexican Made (that's what MIM stands for by the way, or you might even see it abbreviated HEM (Hecho en Mexico) but either way, they are outstanding instruments for about half the price of a USA guitar. Let her pick it though, she has to get the right feel.

Pedals are also a great thing to throw in. The BOSS DS-1 Distortion is a pretty bread-and-butter pedal, gives a wide range of distortions and retails typically around 30-50 USD. Alternatively, if she plays alot of blues/country/bluegrass type stuff I would suggest a blues driver or super overdrive pedal...slightly more expensive but worth it. Don't mind me, im partial to BOSS over Digitech and Electroharmonix, its ultimately a matter of prefrence.

Freind, your best bet is to take her to the nearest guitar center. Better yet, take her under the pretense of just going for the sake of it. Have her try out all the pedals, Let her practice on all the strats, and try running it through different amplifiers. Specifically, ask an employee there to try a few each of Digital, Solid-state, and Tube amps...tubes wil most likely be the winner though.

Another thing to remember. When she tries out the strats, she won't neccesarily go for the most expensive. When I got my strat, I was looking through the strats, i actually did not like the feel of American Standard, i thought the Highway one was ok, but when I picked up that Mexican standard and played on it that was it, i had to have it. A guitar is like a pet , you bond with it and most of us actually name our axes (weather we admit or not.)

Yes i did, mine is called High Tide, after the Outlaws song, its an electron blue MIM strat.

anyway, back on topic, try out that Guitar Center visit, but don't mention what it's really for. She won't suspect its for Christmas, much less becuase it's june!

Hope that helps!

Bahu


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Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:26 pm
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Thank you all so much for all the advice, it is greatly appreciated. Major progress made of the weekend. My aunt, semi-professional musician, has gratiously offered up a small Peavey amp. I don't know the model, just sent her an e-mail to find out, but she did say it is roughly 12" x 12". Guessing it's a "practice" or "back stage" model. Regardless, it's cheap at twice the price. Also found out what guitar features she wants. Looks like we are headed towards the American Standard Candy Cola Maple. What do you think? This decision is based on what I was able to sneak out of her over the weekend. I hope there isn't a consideration factor that I've over looked. Please quiz me so that I'm confident about this, I would hate to screw this up.


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Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:06 pm
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!!!!!!!
Make sure she tries one out before you carry through with it :D

But good choice, if she turns out likin it


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Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:54 pm
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She has played an American Standard with a maple fret board and a "C" neck profile. She preferes that combination to others she has tried. Thanks for asking.


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Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:24 pm
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I hope my 3 boys get as into it and as good. My oldest boy is playing a Squier and also a Squier amp.

Your budget is fine! You can get great stuff from Fender, which is reasonable, on that budget. Personally, I went one step at a time with a Highway One, then for the classic Strat tone I needed I swapped out to Custom Shop Texas Special pickups similar to what's on the SRV and Knopfler artist models. Those two artists show you the versatility of these vintage style Custom Shop pickups. I'm aware there can be some differences between a Highway One and a MIA Standard on the tuners, with the American Standard better. At the same time, my guitar stays in tune very well and sounds great. If your not going to swap out the pickups and want a near-vintage tone, I would go with the American Standard. Cola is a great color, too. I like that color. Personally, I like my solution (of course) of buying the Highway One and then auditioning numerous pickups until I found exactly the sound I wanted. For one thing, a lot of people just feel they must have noiseless, in which case Fender's got SCNs, Vintage Noiseless and Beck Hot Noiseless, which are all very different. Kinman's got some great products but you can't audition them. Dimarzio also has some great offerings. All the noiseless are stacked humbuckers. I find the Custom Shop pickups much less noisy than oem. Since the Custom Shop Texas Specials, Fat 50s, and some other options also have hum cancelling in 2 and 4, noise is not an issue. So, I went with the real thing.

The amp is really important. It's part of the instrument, not like with acoustics. I have a Blues Junior, and the Blues Junior is a great little amp. It's very easy to get much too loud, but turned down it does have great tone, using the preamp to get the gain you want for the fat SRVish sound. Lots of solid states out there, and I've played them for years. The Blues Junior, which is an all-tube signal path, is in a different league. You just have to keep the master down when you up the volume. I think in addition to the tubes the speaker is very important. The speaker is a full 12 inches, which gives rich tone. It's not a Custom Shop '57 or a Custom Shop Twin, but it will do.

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