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Post subject: Demanding vintage trem question
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:00 pm
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Has anybody ever been able to adjust a Strat with a vintage trem so that the B string would come right back in tune after bending it (bending it manually) with-out having to drop the bar?
like exactly back in tune?

If so- what did you do to resolve that issue?

Thanks


Last edited by KRKHKZ on Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Demanding vintage trem question
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:18 pm
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Never have had a problem....

The trem would not be the culprit unless....
(1) your spring tension is not equal to the string gauge you are using.

Other than that a problem could be either...
(2) Your string is sticking in the string tree
(3) Or sticking in the Nut, meaning that the nut string slots were not filed with round files specifically made for filing the nut.
(4) the string slots are sharp at the edge of the fingerboard thus catching the string or because of incorrect files the groove is V shaped instead of round...
(4) if above is done than a little graphite would help.

Those could be some of the culprits...

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Post subject: Re: Demanding vintage trem question
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:44 pm
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53magnatone wrote:
Never have had a problem....

The trem would not be the culprit unless....
(1) your spring tension is not equal to the string gauge you are using.

Other than that a problem could be either...
(2) Your string is sticking in the string tree
(3) Or sticking in the Nut, meaning that the nut string slots were not filed with round files specifically made for filing the nut.
(4) the string slots are sharp at the edge of the fingerboard thus catching the string or because of incorrect files the groove is V shaped instead of round...
(4) if above is done than a little graphite would help.

Those could be some of the culprits...


So are you saying you could bend the B string, lets say from the 13th from D to E and the string goes right back in tune with out needing to drop the trem bar?

I know the trem arm isn't the culprit-(it's definitely the nut)- I just meant that the B (after bent) goes flat unless you drop the bar. I only experience this on Strats with vintage trems- when I set up the guitar like a hardtail (with all the springs tight) it doesn't happen.


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Post subject: Re: Demanding vintage trem question
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:28 pm
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Some trem tuning issues come from the shaping of the nut.

You can also bring it back to pitch by pulling back on the wampy bar after you use the trem.


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Post subject: Re: Demanding vintage trem question
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:32 pm
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paris wrote:
Some trem tuning issues come from the shaping of the nut.

You can also bring it back to pitch by pulling back on the wampy bar after you use the trem.


Yes- I know I could bring it back to pitch by either bringing the bar up or down, but that's exactly what I don't want to have to do.
I wanted to know if anyone has their guitar set up so they don't have to drop or pull up the bar after a bend. That's the whole point


Last edited by KRKHKZ on Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Demanding vintage trem question
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:36 pm
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paris wrote:
Some trem tuning issues come from the shaping of the nut.

You can also bring it back to pitch by pulling back on the wampy bar after you use the trem.



You've mis-read my question- it's not after I've used the bar- it's after I bend a note (manually) that I want the string to go right back in tune with-out having to do anything with the bar.

I play un-accompanied solo guitar so I bend often and my dense arrangements don't allow time to correct the tuning after each string bend.


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Post subject: Re: Demanding vintage trem question
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:45 pm
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What you're experiencing sounds like a binding issue. Are you lubing the nut slots, trees and saddles?

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Post subject: Re: Demanding vintage trem question
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:21 pm
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Strat-Slinger wrote:
What you're experiencing sounds like a binding issue. Are you lubing the nut slots, trees and saddles?


+1

I'd carefully examine the saddles and, if necessary, de-bur and polish the contact points to prevent any binding or "creep".

I've never had this issue, not even when bending my high E string four half-steps up at the 15th fret.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Demanding vintage trem question
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:26 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Strat-Slinger wrote:
What you're experiencing sounds like a binding issue. Are you lubing the nut slots, trees and saddles?


+1

I'd carefully examine the saddles and, if necessary, de-bur and polish the contact points to prevent any binding or "creep".

I've never had this issue, not even when bending my high E string four half-steps up at the 15th fret.

Arjay


+1

It sounds like a nut issue; not a trem issue. Whenever you are having brending/tuning ussues, always go for the nut first. 9 times out of 10 it's the problem and it's less expensive to get fixed.


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Post subject: Re: Demanding vintage trem question
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:20 am
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paris wrote:
It sounds like a nut issue; not a trem issue. Whenever you are having brending/tuning ussues, always go for the nut first. 9 times out of 10 it's the problem and it's less expensive to get fixed.

.....and it stands to reason why it happens when you deck the bridge with five springs and/or drive the trem claw against the body. You've effectively stopped the vibrato system and eliminated any string movement through the nut.

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Post subject: Re: Demanding vintage trem question
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:40 am
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I have used the Tusq XL nuts on the 6 screw vintage bridge with excellent results. At times I have reverted to putting a thin layer of chapstick under the bridge, polishing saddles and string trees, 3-in-One oil on the saddles and string trees after installing new strings. I place a drop or two of the oil on a paper plate then use a toothpick to apply a small amount to everything except the nut. This includes the 6 screws where they contact the bridge.

Some also put graphite on the nut, but with the self lubricating nuts I don't use anything else on them. A very well cut nut is very important, 3 springs minimum works best for the ones I have worked on.


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Post subject: Re: Demanding vintage trem question
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:07 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
paris wrote:
It sounds like a nut issue; not a trem issue. Whenever you are having brending/tuning ussues, always go for the nut first. 9 times out of 10 it's the problem and it's less expensive to get fixed.

.....and it stands to reason why it happens when you deck the bridge with five springs and/or drive the trem claw against the body. You've effectively stopped the vibrato system and eliminated any string movement through the nut.


??
I don't use 5 springs, except when I want to set the guitar up as a hardtail and remove the actual tremolo bar.

Also, there is nothing about a trem system (set properly) that should eliminate any movement through the nut.

Incidentally, when I remove the trem bar and sock up the springs, that's when a strong manual bend on the B string doesn't throw it out of tune, but settles right back in tune immediately after the bend.


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Post subject: Re: Demanding vintage trem question
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:10 am
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SNick wrote:
I have used the Tusq XL nuts on the 6 screw vintage bridge with excellent results. At times I have reverted to putting a thin layer of chapstick under the bridge, polishing saddles and string trees, 3-in-One oil on the saddles and string trees after installing new strings. I place a drop or two of the oil on a paper plate then use a toothpick to apply a small amount to everything except the nut. This includes the 6 screws where they contact the bridge.

Some also put graphite on the nut, but with the self lubricating nuts I don't use anything else on them. A very well cut nut is very important, 3 springs minimum works best for the ones I have worked on.


Yes- I always use 3 springs also. And I don't set them up like a triangle, but have the 3 go straight up.


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Post subject: Re: Demanding vintage trem question
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:17 am
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KRKHKZ wrote:
ZZDoc wrote:
paris wrote:
It sounds like a nut issue; not a trem issue. Whenever you are having brending/tuning ussues, always go for the nut first. 9 times out of 10 it's the problem and it's less expensive to get fixed.

.....and it stands to reason why it happens when you deck the bridge with five springs and/or drive the trem claw against the body. You've effectively stopped the vibrato system and eliminated any string movement through the nut.


??
I don't use 5 springs, except when I want to set the guitar up as a hardtail and remove the actual tremolo bar.

Also, there is nothing about a trem system (set properly) that should eliminate any movement through the nut.

Incidentally, when I remove the trem bar and sock up the springs, that's when a strong manual bend on the B string doesn't throw it out of tune, but settles right back in tune immediately after the bend.

.......'that's what I say' :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Demanding vintage trem question
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:23 am
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.......'that's what I say' :wink:[/quote]


not trying to be stubborn, but what do you say?

Are you able to bend a note and have it stay in tune?


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