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Post subject: Re: Volume inbalance for each string
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:52 am
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Actually I adjust mine all flat head. I use a 6 inch flexible steel rule put it on top of the magnets and push down untill they are all even with the cover.
You dont have to take strings off or remove anything. It sounds better I think. I even changed out my Hot Alnico 3 magnets to Alnico 5. but thats something you need to be careful doing and have experience at.

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Post subject: Re: Volume inbalance for each string
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:54 am
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SNick wrote:
Well, look at it this way..... All the Stratocaster rock gods played with a much higher G pole piece. You can always drop it down a bit lower - say even with the B pole which is louder than the high E, then you can lower the B pole piece even further to even it all out or....... you can learn to love the G Spot the way it is and just play it. :wink:



In this case the D pole is the highest.

I will see if it can be adjusted on this guitar.


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Post subject: Re: Volume inbalance for each string
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:57 am
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donnycraven wrote:
Actually I adjust mine all flat head. I use a 6 inch flexible steel rule put it on top of the magnets and push down untill they are all even with the cover.
You dont have to take strings off or remove anything. It sounds better I think. I even changed out my Hot Alnico 3 magnets to Alnico 5. but thats something you need to be careful doing and have experience at.




I can sense a catastrophe if I proceed this way .. :oops:


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Post subject: Re: Volume inbalance for each string
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:55 am
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Nikola Tesla wrote:
donnycraven wrote:
Actually I adjust mine all flat head. I use a 6 inch flexible steel rule put it on top of the magnets and push down untill they are all even with the cover.
You dont have to take strings off or remove anything. It sounds better I think. I even changed out my Hot Alnico 3 magnets to Alnico 5. but thats something you need to be careful doing and have experience at.




I can sense a catastrophe if I proceed this way .. :oops:


You obviously dont know a Stratocaster very well. You might want to follow my band link and find out how well I know mine.

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Post subject: Re: Volume inbalance for each string
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:46 am
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Quote: "its ridiculous playing on a guitar that has the 4th string loud and 2nd 50% quieter .. etc Suggestions please!"



My suggestion, based upon what you have written here, is that you may be allowing your eye to determine, what your ear is telling your brain, you are actually hearing.

We have developed as human beings to give predomination to visual stimulus over what our ears actually hear, in terms of the brain activity that register to our conscious minds. This is why Films require additional Mixes.

So I'm wondering whether being unaware of this aspect of this Instruments Design, noticing it for the first time and being unduly concerned, you are focussed so strongly upon it, that's it's become problem. But its a completely internalised over reaction.

Our eyes and ears and brains are highly susceptible when dealing with such phenomenon, especially with that which is new to them. So personally I find Straight Edges, Measurement and a variety of Specialised Tools, extremely helpful in completely eliminating the all human variable elements, when setting up.



The other point is, many people like to "Maximise Signal Output" by adjusting "Pickup to String Distance" to an absolute minimum.

My experience with Stratocasters in particular has been that they benefit greatly in Tonal Musicality from being pulled back further from the Strings to allow more room for them to vibrate naturally, without the effect of the three pickups magnets, influencing them in any undue manner.

Especially easy to hear, is the Musical Sounding, Tonal Benefit when you strum chords, when a Stratocaster is adjusted in this way, but it also works for single string notes too. Additionally, the wolf notes than can occur at places along a Stratocaster Neck when pickup pole pieces are too close to the String, are entirely avoided, if you set the pickups for Musical Sound in a Variety of Playing Styles, rather than the cruder method of simply trying to Maximise Output.



Usually, the Bass side is most important to reduce in Height. But I find lowering both sides, simply sounds better to my ears. So there are good reasons for taking this route and approach to set up.

There's a good chance that doing nothing at all to your pickup pole pieces, but simply allowing them rather more room for overall balance of sound in relation to the Strings Vibration may smooth everything out into proper balance.

There are or can be inherent dangers to changing the Pole Piece Height in Stratocaster Pickups, certainly even if you can, you will alter the inner phase relationship between the poles and change the pickups sound. As there have been many different types of bobbin manufactured. Don't take it, that you can do this to yours.

The worst case scenario is that you could break the hair thin wire of the coil via moving the pole and at that point the pickup would no longer work. It would require a complete rewind with new material or complete replacement altogether.



Many problems are created by people that really have no background, training or experience in what they are attempting, but who try none the less, to tweak an extra bit of performance out of their Instrument by some adjustment or other.

Idealism and High Aspiration is indubitably a wonderful thing. But in point of fact, it is most often the case that at some point, compromises between a number of competing desirables have to be made. The one between Action Height and Tone is perhaps the most important.

On a Stratocaster, my experience has been that Overall Global Pickup Height, is critical in determining Tone. On such a Low Action Guitar as a Stratocaster, perhaps you can see this lowering of the Pickup Height as a powerful compensatory factor for Ideal Setup to achieve the Finest Tone.




Quote: "It would be logical to have the rods following the neck radius, or at least be flash with the pickup covers, but this way .. its ridiculous."



With all due respect, you have merely revealed complete ignorance regarding the Instruments Design History.

The pickup was developed this way for the String Gauges in Vogue at that time, and the playing Styles, it allowed a natural form of gain and tone equalisation, and is a strong factor in achieving the hallmark characteristic Stratocaster Bell Chime Sound. Though the particular pole piece layout you have in your pickups is a more modern representation of that concept.

Personally, I have never encountered a Stratocaster that required adjustment of pole pieces to give a properly balance sound that was really great. Overwhelmingly, making a proper Global Adjustment to the overall Pickup Height and listening with a good Amp and Speaker, at the right distance, one that's feeding back the right information in a proper manner, has resolved any seeming issues that appeared to be a concern.

Slight adjustments can make big differences. And the ears need time to settle to those adjustments, as when you are focussed hard looking for a problem, you are likely to find it, even if its not there.



Again with respect..

If you have gone through twenty three different Stratocasters.

Still as yet, have not found one that completely satisfies you. It might be worth profoundly deep consideration of the notion that it may well be possible, or indeed probable, that the real problem does not actually lie with the Guitars themselves.

It has been my experience, that Musicians often through Marketing Information, and their own Highly Idealised, Personal Aspirations, project an image and expectancy, a deeply personal, emotionally charged anticipation, of all that Instrument will eventually be. Such individuals are quite naturally, very easily disappointed.

Many endlessly continue to adjust or modify their Instrument, and some even buy their Instrument with such modification already in mind. Personally, I think Musicians should visit every Music Store they can, as often as possible, and take plenty of time looking for an Instrument, and trying it out before they buy. Only when they find the Ideal Instrument for them, and are holding that in their hands, should they make a purchase.

If you highlight some issue, and the salesman tells you it is simply a matter of adjustment, tell him to simply make that adjustment now, so its right before you buy it, if he won't, move on.

Buy the Instrument that you know is already everything you want, before you purchase it. One that is truly Compelling to you.

And enjoy the ride, trying everything you can, as you work through this process.

You will learn a very great deal, as you go along.

Buying Mail Order is a Mystery Tour.



P


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Post subject: Re: Volume inbalance for each string
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:41 pm
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Pink Panther wrote:
My experience with Stratocasters in particular has been that they benefit greatly in Tonal Musicality from being pulled back further from the Strings to allow more room for them to vibrate naturally, without the effect of the three pickups magnets, influencing them in any undue manner.


What he said. All of it...very well put.

I have Strats with Vintage spacing, Modern spacing, and CBS Flats. I haven't noticed a significant difference as I keep the poles far away from the strings. I even went old-school, and put on a set with a wound G...still no significant difference string-to-string. Lowest (Neck Bass) is just at the pickguard and highest (Bridge Trebble) is about 3mm above the adjustment screw.

Cheers.

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Post subject: Re: Volume inbalance for each string
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:21 pm
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Butterscotch wrote:
Worth reading, before attempting to adjust polepieces...which can easily ruin pickups...

http://www.fender.com/news/staggered-polepieces-why/


Yes! Thank you for the link. Cheers!

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Post subject: Re: Volume inbalance for each string
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:43 pm
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This is what I came up with after testing and adjusting the pickups height. It may look ridiculous but the original problem is still there, ... the unbalance is slightly reduced.

Whatever the reason for different height of the poles is, I can assure you this is very wrong (and if you are not deaf you will certainly hear the difference). FENDER, you need to change this, regardless of the reasons behind it.

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Post subject: Re: Volume inbalance for each string
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:44 pm
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Adjusting the poles must mean you don't like the classic strat sound. Classic is supposed to have uneven volume, many blade pickups are made curved even to do this. I have known some to destroy vintage pickups messing with the poles including flatworks.

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Post subject: Re: Volume inbalance for each string
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:42 pm
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cvilleira wrote:
Adjusting the poles must mean you don't like the classic strat sound.


+1!

The OP really ought to find a more gratifying hobby (Estes rockets, Lionel trains, RC cars, etc).

:roll:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Volume inbalance for each string
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:47 pm
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Or...throw on a set of strings with a wound-G...Vintage strings for the Vintage stagger.

I have on a set of 12-52 and the G-string is 0.024w. The balance is fine. Sustain for days.

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1967 Epiphone Madrid EC-30
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1981 Rickenbacker 360
2002 BC Rich Bich
2007 Fender Standard Stratocaster
2012 Taylor GA3-12
2012 Squier Telecaster
2017 Les Paul Kit


"Make every song you sing your favorite tune."


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Post subject: Re: Volume inbalance for each string
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:08 am
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cvilleira wrote:
Classic is supposed to have uneven volume ..



Why?

Do you think the uneven volume, where D is extra loud and B half the volume is normal? I think we are here talking apples and oranges, aren't we?! Or maybe I'm missing something here?! :mrgreen:


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Post subject: Re: Volume inbalance for each string
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:09 am
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[quote="HeyJoe42"]Or...throw on a set of strings with a wound-G...Vintage strings for the Vintage stagger [quote]

Maybe this is not a bad idea, if this is gonna cure the problem, will give it a go. :D


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Post subject: Re: Volume inbalance for each string
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:37 am
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Nikola Tesla wrote:
HeyJoe42 wrote:
Or...throw on a set of strings with a wound-G...Vintage strings for the Vintage stagger
Quote:

Maybe this is not a bad idea, if this is gonna cure the problem, will give it a go. :D


I believe the problem may be yours and yours alone. If you are unsatisfied please get other pickups with flat pole pieces installed. I believe this to be your main issue? Other than the CBS years, and "noiseless" types, etc., I never saw a production Strat pickup with flat pole pieces. I almost forgot, the bridge pickup on the Custom Shop Robert Cray Strat has flat poles, the other two are staggered.

The nice thing about Strats is that everything can be easily changed to fit the player.


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Post subject: Re: Volume inbalance for each string
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:44 pm
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Nikola Tesla wrote:
cvilleira wrote:
Classic is supposed to have uneven volume ..



Why?

Do you think the uneven volume, where D is extra loud and B half the volume is normal? I think we are here talking apples and oranges, aren't we?! Or maybe I'm missing something here?! :mrgreen:

I think you need to learn how Flatwork are used for in a single-coil and how the wire is wrap around. Then you will see it's a bad idea to try and push them down. The anatomy of a single coil is much different then a humbucker. Single coil Alnico Polepiece's and humbucker Polepiece slugs and polepiece screws are different. Humbuckers use a bar magnet.

Pushing a singlecoil magnetic pole down thru the wire can create damage to flatwork or wire. I would never change all the poles in a single coil unless I was planing on rewinding it. Might as well make a new one. I can do that at a cost of $22 in material which I have done for people in the past. Time wise I can profit better on loaded pick guards.

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