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Post subject: Re: Made in usa strats 89-90 i series...anybody know anythin
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:52 am
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Blairdollery wrote:
Well according to latest news...mine probably was made in the usa! Woohoo! :) actually ive played some lovely japanese strats before....i think it really does vary from strat to strat.....probably all guitars are a bit different, i also play an agile les paul...($400-$500) its better then my two previous gibson les pauls i had! Better tone...stays in tune better.



I bet :roll:

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Post subject: Re: Made in usa strats 89-90 i series...anybody know anythin
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:56 am
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The interesting things to note about these guitars are: 1) they are clearly Japanese guitars, 2) most are found in Europe (France, Siberia, UK), and 3) how exactly did the following information make its way onto the Fender Support pages?

danagos wrote:
That is an '89-'90 Made In Japan Serial number, but I found this exception in - Fender Support - U.S. Instruments Product Dating - "odd serial numbers"
Guess that makes it REAL!


Maybe #2 gives a clue as to who so successfully created this fraud.
As to #3, there are other errors in the Support pages, and I believe that bit of info existed on other websites that predate Fender's.

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Post subject: Re: Made in usa strats 89-90 i series...anybody know anythin
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:03 am
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In my signature you will see what a real Gibson and a Real Fender look like.

Do what you have to, to own the real thing.

Make payments, sell a family heirloom, save money that's a novel concept.

America does not corner the market on everything or have the best quality on all.

But they did invent and still make the best of these guitars.

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Post subject: Re: Made in usa strats 89-90 i series...anybody know anythin
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:38 am
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Donny in this case I think you're partially wrong - these are legit Fenders but they likely aren't legit USA Fenders. This was during the "gray area" years when the HM Strats were made without any country of origin markings, those two versions of other unmarked Strats with Kahler Spyder trems, and a few other oddballs were made. Who knows if these were left-over MIJ parts shipped to Corona for assembly or if some overseas distributor put that "Made in USA" stamp into the wood or just what is going on. There's no one left from that era still at Fender who knows exactly what happened.

There are lots of real Fenders that are so odd they look like fakes - this is one of them. There were some from slightly later in the 1990s that are essentially MIM Standards with "Made in USA" headstock decals that were also supposed to be export only - I think those might date to when the Ensenada plant had the fire that shut it down for a while and parts from down there were finished and assembled up here - again for export only.


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Post subject: Re: Made in usa strats 89-90 i series...anybody know anythin
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:41 am
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It seems this will go round and round....is it fake? Is it not fake? I think fender are the only ones who can clear this up...


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Post subject: Re: Made in usa strats 89-90 i series...anybody know anythin
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:45 am
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I kinda like the fact its a bit odd :)) its a bit different from the rest....a bit of a freak lol


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Post subject: Re: Made in usa strats 89-90 i series...anybody know anythin
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:05 am
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John C wrote:
Donny in this case I think you're partially wrong - these are legit Fenders but they likely aren't legit USA Fenders. This was during the "gray area" years when the HM Strats were made without any country of origin markings, those two versions of other unmarked Strats with Kahler Spyder trems, and a few other oddballs were made. Who knows if these were left-over MIJ parts shipped to Corona for assembly or if some overseas distributor put that "Made in USA" stamp into the wood or just what is going on. There's no one left from that era still at Fender who knows exactly what happened.

There are lots of real Fenders that are so odd they look like fakes - this is one of them. There were some from slightly later in the 1990s that are essentially MIM Standards with "Made in USA" headstock decals that were also supposed to be export only - I think those might date to when the Ensenada plant had the fire that shut it down for a while and parts from down there were finished and assembled up here - again for export only.



Authorized copies.

After Gibson and Fender won the "Illegal Copy Lawsuit" They began to corner the market themselves with "Authorized Copies".
These are made in the same factories that the Hondo Aria Ibanez etc. were made.
They are the same junk that when I was a kid you were shamed to own by old store owners.
They are crap.
Fender has one upped the authorized copy market with its own Mexican Freddy Fender models, its crap.
The only difference from the Aria Hondo Lotus and Ibanez Copies and these is Fender and Gibson now get their kickback.
In return you get an authorized name on your peghead, crap crap crap.

Save your money Make Payments or sell an heirloom and buy the real thing.
Take pride in where your money goes.

I am not innocent I fell for that salesman line for a while too, Oh these are just as good and you can buy it now and save money.
That translates into I would like a paycheck now and not wait on your someday to eat Mr. Customer.
I bought the Epiphony and the Freddy Fender, oh these are just as good as my 70s Fender Stratocaster and Gibson Les Paul, times have changed, NOT!
They are crap I wont even begin to waste the text on what crap they are.
I decided to drive my old Ford Focus a while longer and buy some real guitars.
I wanted the quality I had when I bought used originals in the 70s mowing lawns as a youth.
I have it now, the real high quality thing, no made in Fugi by Sushi, no Taco Bell Freddy Fender, The Real Deal.
Do what you have to to get just one of the real thing.
Leave the Great Value to Walmart.
Just say no to Authorized Copies.
Its just common sense, if I buy a samurai sword I don't buy a made in USA one.
If I go eat Mexican food I don't look for the restaurants owned by Italians.
Stop lying to yourselves saying these are just as good, they are not.

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Post subject: Re: Made in usa strats 89-90 i series...anybody know anythin
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:27 am
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John C wrote:
Who knows if these were left-over MIJ parts shipped to Corona for assembly or if some overseas distributor put that "Made in USA" stamp into the wood or just what is going on. There's no one left from that era still at Fender who knows exactly what happened.


But we can put things in perspective. What was going on in the US factory at the time? It was pretty new, did they have enough orders, did they have enough parts and material?

"leftover Japanese parts"? Fuji could use them in their self-branded guitars, no? They were making lots of different brands and guitars and continued Fender Japan for years.

That older thread put a question in my mind: If you took a pile of Japanese parts and painted and fretted necks and bodies to America, assembled them, sold them, wouldn't they still be Japanese guitars?

Donny, most people praise the quality of those old Japanese guitars. And claim it nearly brought about Fender's demise. And the current Mexican quality is very high.

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Post subject: Re: Made in usa strats 89-90 i series...anybody know anythin
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:42 pm
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donnycraven wrote:
Authorized copies.

After Gibson and Fender won the "Illegal Copy Lawsuit" They began to corner the market themselves with "Authorized Copies".


Point taken - by the way I was only pointing out that these were then "authorized copies" and not something put together by a counterfeiter that someone down the line was stamping that "Made in USA" even though these appear to be 100% MIJ models.


Last edited by John C on Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Made in usa strats 89-90 i series...anybody know anythin
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:52 pm
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orvilleowner wrote:
John C wrote:
Who knows if these were left-over MIJ parts shipped to Corona for assembly or if some overseas distributor put that "Made in USA" stamp into the wood or just what is going on. There's no one left from that era still at Fender who knows exactly what happened.


But we can put things in perspective. What was going on in the US factory at the time? It was pretty new, did they have enough orders, did they have enough parts and material?

"leftover Japanese parts"? Fuji could use them in their self-branded guitars, no? They were making lots of different brands and guitars and continued Fender Japan for years.

That older thread put a question in my mind: If you took a pile of Japanese parts and painted and fretted necks and bodies to America, assembled them, sold them, wouldn't they still be Japanese guitars?

Donny, most people praise the quality of those old Japanese guitars. And claim it nearly brought about Fender's demise. And the current Mexican quality is very high.


Hey I'm just throwing out guesses on these - as far as I can tell they have 100% of the earmarks of a FujiGen era MIJ Fender. I have no idea who would have stamped them "Made in USA".

The Corona factory had been up and running producing "real" USA Fenders for several years by this point - according to "The Stratocaster Chronicles" they were up to 150 instruments per day by mid-1987. By the early 1990s you would think they would be doing a bit more than that.

I'm also giving Fender the "benefit of the doubt" on things like the HM Strats that they could have been assembled in the USA using FujiGen bodies and necks - as they are CLEARLY FujiGen bodies and necks, right down to the stamps.

There are also legal implications. A product can be considered to be made in the USA if there is enough content done in the USA - this includes parts and labor. If the body and neck were done Japan then you would have to count up the percentage of content that come from the other parts (for an HM that would be bridge by Kahler USA, single coils by Fender USA, humbucker by DiMarzio USA, other parts from USA sources) plus USA labor. Check out the sticker on any car - it will list the percentage of parts that came from the USA. In the 1990s it was common to find a higher percentage of USA content on a Honda (made in Ohio) or Toyota (made in Kentucky) than on a Ford, GM or Chrysler.


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Post subject: Re: Made in usa strats 89-90 i series...anybody know anythin
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:03 pm
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John C wrote:
orvilleowner wrote:
John C wrote:
Who knows if these were left-over MIJ parts shipped to Corona for assembly or if some overseas distributor put that "Made in USA" stamp into the wood or just what is going on. There's no one left from that era still at Fender who knows exactly what happened.


But we can put things in perspective. What was going on in the US factory at the time? It was pretty new, did they have enough orders, did they have enough parts and material?

"leftover Japanese parts"? Fuji could use them in their self-branded guitars, no? They were making lots of different brands and guitars and continued Fender Japan for years.

That older thread put a question in my mind: If you took a pile of Japanese parts and painted and fretted necks and bodies to America, assembled them, sold them, wouldn't they still be Japanese guitars?

Donny, most people praise the quality of those old Japanese guitars. And claim it nearly brought about Fender's demise. And the current Mexican quality is very high.


Hey I'm just throwing out guesses on these - as far as I can tell they have 100% of the earmarks of a FujiGen era MIJ Fender. I have no idea who would have stamped them "Made in USA".

The Corona factory had been up and running producing "real" USA Fenders for several years by this point - according to "The Stratocaster Chronicles" they were up to 150 instruments per day by mid-1987. By the early 1990s you would think they would be doing a bit more than that.

I'm also giving Fender the "benefit of the doubt" on things like the HM Strats that they could have been assembled in the USA using FujiGen bodies and necks - as they are CLEARLY FujiGen bodies and necks, right down to the stamps.

There are also legal implications. A product can be considered to be made in the USA if there is enough content done in the USA - this includes parts and labor. If the body and neck were done Japan then you would have to count up the percentage of content that come from the other parts (for an HM that would be bridge by Kahler USA, single coils by Fender USA, humbucker by DiMarzio USA, other parts from USA sources) plus USA labor. Check out the sticker on any car - it will list the percentage of parts that came from the USA. In the 1990s it was common to find a higher percentage of USA content on a Honda (made in Ohio) or Toyota (made in Kentucky) than on a Ford, GM or Chrysler.



I hear ya like my Ford Focus with the Mazda Power Train.
I believe there was a HM Strat USA, HM Strat Japan and a STRAT by Fender.
The HM USA was rare and costly, Greg Howe was an endorser.
The HM USA had 2 Fender Standard USA pickups a Dimarzio Super 3
A Kahler Floyd Copy not the spyder. a USA neck and maybe a Fugi body.
Not sure but its not much different than an American Deluxe with a Mexican Humbucker a Mexican 5 way Taiwan machine heads and pots.
Its still the original not the copy.
Im not a strictly made in USA guy at all I assure you.
Im a I want the original not a copy kind of guy.
I don't care if the copy is supposed to be better.
I mean you know my Dr Martens are made in china now not England.
My Wrangler camo cargo pants are made in Vietnam not USA.
That's just world economy and the way it is.
What I do have a problem with is the actual manufacture of the original item.
The people who invented the thing in the first place.
I mean the USA invented the Solid Body Electric Guitar, Leo Fender himself.
Orville Gibson and Les Paul, now offer a cheap alternative copy of their own original.
Only because in the late 70s they saw the likes of Aria Lotus and Ibanez ripping them off.
So they legally took those same crappy import knock offs, and effectively started slapping their own name on them.
What a con job.
If I want a copy I will get an ESP at least its quality.
The other thing that kills me lol is my friends who have like a room full of 20 copies.
They have about what I got in my 4 originals, I got about $8,000 in them give or take. They could have had 4 or 5 of the real thing but instead they have a sea of make believe.

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Post subject: Re: Made in usa strats 89-90 i series...anybody know anythin
Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:25 pm
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I see your point Donny, but even our expensive American made guitars aren't 100% American either. Most hardware is manufactured in the east too. I'm only confident that pickups, wood and assembly are USA.

Not like how they were in the old days, but as I look around- everything we buy is manufactured to highest possible quality as cheap as they can make it.


If we wanted 'original' we'd be spending far more than $10k on a single guitar only

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Post subject: Re: Made in usa strats 89-90 i series...anybody know anythin
Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:54 pm
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Blertles wrote:
I see your point Donny, but even our expensive American made guitars aren't 100% American either. Most hardware is manufactured in the east too. I'm only confident that pickups, wood and assembly are USA.

Not like how they were in the old days, but as I look around- everything we buy is manufactured to highest possible quality as cheap as they can make it.


If we wanted 'original' we'd be spending far more than $10k on a single guitar only



I hear ya
I pointed that out I realize the Machine heads are Taiwan the pots are too.
The Bridge is USA so is the Single Coils the Humbuckers and 5 way are Mexico.
The neck Body and frets are USA
The strap locks are Germany
I still want a real Fender not an Authorized Copy.
I was struggling to get a real one when I was 16 and still am
Its just now the sea of copies most actually say Fender on them.
I am going to buy another Strat it will be the Last one I buy probably with 4 under my belt and turning 50.
I think I will get an American Special and put a Super Vee on it I like their stuff.
I have installed a Blade Runner and it was really cool

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Post subject: Re: Made in usa strats 89-90 i series...anybody know anythin
Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:57 pm
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I feel those $@! ones are the biggest con ever because.
They sued them for making unauthorized copies at Fugi.
Then they win and just slap their logo on there and keep selling them.
That one was like wait a minute.

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Post subject: Re: Made in usa strats 89-90 i series...anybody know anythin
Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:40 pm
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This excerpt from a representative from Fender about Heartfield guitars, however goes into detail about the reasons why the switch to USA assembly and the demise of the MIJ lineup in the 90's being sold in USA

http://www.heartfield-central.com

Be sure to click on 'background' on the righthand side

These are from internal fender documents.

There is a lot of misconception about the switch from Japan to USA- though not directly related to Strats, this does give insight.

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