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Post subject: Open and 12th fret not the same tone
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:12 am
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Hi, I have a fender strat, and on the high e string, the tone is a full fret out on the 12th string compared to the open position does anyone know why this is happening? Sorry if this is in the wrong section.


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Post subject: Re: Open and 12th fret not the same tone
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:19 am
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Hi Raymondo1981,

Sounds like the intonation is off. The length of the string should be adjusted with the saddle screw at the end of the bridge. If the note fretted at twelfth fret is high, lengthen the string. If the note fretted at the twelfth fret is low, shorten the string. Moving the saddle closer to the nut makes the string shorter. Loosen the string before adjusting the saddle, so as not to scratch the bridge plate with the saddle height adjust screws.

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Post subject: Re: Open and 12th fret not the same tone
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:17 pm
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A half-step, one full fret, is a lot, you should be able to see that the saddle is way out of position. The saddle for the high "e" should be furthest out of the set (towards the headstock) by the width of the string from the "b" saddle.

Try adjusting the intonation, as shimmilou advises, if that doesn't work, replace the string. Sometimes it's just a bad string.

I don't stretch them when putting new strings on anymore unless I'm playing immediately. You can thin out a point on the string and it will never sound right. I just leave it for a few days, tune occasionally, and play another guitar.

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Post subject: Re: Open and 12th fret not the same tone
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:51 am
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danagos wrote:
A half-step, one full fret, is a lot, you should be able to see that the saddle is way out of position. The saddle for the high "e" should be furthest out of the set (towards the headstock) by the width of the string from the "b" saddle.

Try adjusting the intonation, as shimmilou advises, if that doesn't work, replace the string. Sometimes it's just a bad string.

I don't stretch them when putting new strings on anymore unless I'm playing immediately. You can thin out a point on the string and it will never sound right. I just leave it for a few days, tune occasionally, and play another guitar.


Using your formula will get you in the Ballpark most of the time.

But, the variation(s) of a manufactured guitar mean that each one is unique. The variances may only be thousands of an inch, but intonation can be sensitive to such small differences.

You really need to fine-tune each saddle using a tuner to get it truly dialed-in. Also, new strings that have stretched and are at operating temp (play 10 min. before adjusting saddles) will result in greater precision.

I very much like your habit of not pre-stretching new strings. I certainly can wait a couple days to allow them to stretch 'naturally'... useful tip !

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: Open and 12th fret not the same tone
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:28 am
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OP, you need to intonate your set up.
It's easy, all you need are... A small digital tuner like the Snark, a set of radii gauges ( available @ Stew Mac ) and allen keys to fit your saddle adjustment screws plus a small phillips screwdriver to move the saddles fore and aft...

1st... do the radius of your saddles, they need to match the neck radius at the 20th fret so that your strings mimic a curve when you look at them horizontally....
This will then allow you a similar height to fretboard for all strings...

2nd .... For each string, the fretted note at the 12th fret should be the same as the harmonic at the 12th... If the harmonic is flatter than the note fretted at the 12th, then the saddle needs to move back towards the strap button... lengthening the string length from nut to saddle will lower the pitch and shortening the string length will raise the pitch.
Harmonic and 12th fret need to match in frequency or the intonation will be off on the entire neck, more pronounced in some positions then other's....
Also bear in mind that our guitars are based on a tempered system of tuning, it's a compromise where some notes will be just a bit flat and some a bit sharp.
Don't worry about it it's aninherent design of the spanish style guitar, just get the 12th fret Harmonic / fretted balanced....

Have Fun...

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