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Post subject: Some minorly alarming discoveries
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:07 pm
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So I had some issues with buzzing a while ago on my 2012 MIA strat, only after I had restrung it for the first time. I got some tips on here, tinkered a little but with few results - obviously forgetting about it for a while due to life needing my time for a while.

I just got a new set of strings, slapped them on and decided to do a full setup. I've still played it with the buzzing (more on the bass strings, and more on the lower notes), and it didnt feel bad at all. After checkingy truss rod relief, I have just over .50mm between the 6th E at the 8th fret, capo on first and pressing the last. This is a little alarming as I tho thought it was around .10mm... And I still have this buzz with all that room.

I measured the tremolo, 1/8th an inch gap... Intonation seems fine... What's goin on here? Any advice? Should I be alarmed at this?


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Post subject: Re: Some minorly alarming discoveries
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:46 pm
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Have you tried the saddle height adjustments, or the micro-tilt adjustment? Saddle height is obvious, loosen strings before adjusting the saddle set screws. For micro-tilt, loosen the strings, loosen the neck plate screws, loosen the set screw, tighten the neck plate screws. If you are able to get more of an angle on the neck with the micro-tilt, you might be able to straighten the neck more with the truss rod adjust.

Really though, it all works together, a complete setup may be in order, and it seems that you might be better off with some professional help.

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Post subject: Re: Some minorly alarming discoveries
Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:31 am
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I'll post action measurements when I get home from work... it never felt high at all - lower than what I normally play at, actually. That's why i was so shocked when I measured the truss rod relief... I was expecting it to be low. I checked to see if the strings were touching other frets when holding a note, seems like they're not.

I may just have to bring it in to a tech anyway, it is most likely something blatantly obvious that I am just missing, just seemed weird to me as I was expecting lower relief/action than what it actually is.


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Post subject: Re: Some minorly alarming discoveries
Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:26 pm
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Ok so there are a number of factors that can cause strings to rattle. Here are some of the major ones IMHO excluding heavy playing styles
1. The neck is too concave resulting in buzz on the higher frets.
2. The neck is to convex ... lower fretted notes cause rattling further up the neck
3. The bridge is too low rattling all over or saddle too low problem on that string only.
4. The micro tilt or shim if present has been set wrong generally rattling on the higher notes.
5. The nut slots are cut too low causing rattling on the low notes and elsewhere
6. Warping or bending of the neck causing rattling in some places
7. A dud string but this more often results in weird or bad tone.
8. A single fret that is too high or too low.
9. Any combination of the above
The first step is to get the bridge at the correct height and the micro tilt set properly. Then look at the truss rod setting you should use a gauge but you can sight down the neck and adjust it so you just see a small dip. Don't overdo it and if you find it starts to get very tight something could be amiss.
Problems with buzz on the lower notes close to the nut can be due to the nut being cut to low. :D


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Post subject: Re: Some minorly alarming discoveries
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:54 pm
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OP... Take your guitar to a good tech at a reputable guitar store, onethat has been around for a few years.....
Rarely is it a truss rod issue when the buzz is below the 5th position.
Also since we cannot play and see the guitar there really is no way to pinpoint where the problem lies....
BTW .... how often do you change strings ? And what guage are you using....
also is this a vintage trem or a modern two point.
There really is too many little things to check....
But One I wouldn't do is detach the neck...
Let a tech see it first....

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Post subject: Re: Some minorly alarming discoveries
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:20 pm
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Re the microtilt quote....
Not to sound too opposing but I disagree.
I'm afraid action is a pretty encompassing thing which includes bridge height and many other factors and as you mention micro tilt. If the action is too low or set incorrectly then you will get rattles. It follows that if the neck angle is part of this "action" then one could draw the conclusion that an incorrect setting of the micro tilt could cause rattling.
Try incorrectly adjusting your micro tilt so the heel is pushed up and I guarantee you will eventually get rattling on the higher frets.
I am not suggesting this is the ops problem though. :D


Last edited by jimmy_james on Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Some minorly alarming discoveries
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:37 pm
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Yes I have been to the Fender factory in Corona and seen the complete process.
I think most USA standards and deluxes come with the micro tilt which is why I mentioned it.... :D


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Post subject: Re: Some minorly alarming discoveries
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:39 pm
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jimmy_james wrote:
53magnatone wrote:
The micro tilt is to adjust neck angle for action, not to adjust buzzing issues.

Not to sound too opposing but I disagree.
I'm afraid action is a pretty encompassing thing which includes bridge height and many other factors and as you mention micro tilt. If the action is too low or set incorrectly then you will get rattles. It follows that if the neck angle is part of this "action" then one could draw the conclusion that an incorrect setting of the micro tilt could cause rattling.
Try incorrectly adjusting your micro tilt so the heel is pushed up and I guarantee you will eventually get rattling on the higher frets.
I am not suggesting this is the ops problem though. :D


I don't mind being quoted but only IF IT IS what I wrote :?: ... Nowhere did I even mention the micro tilt, so let's get it accurate before you post a quote I never typed....

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Post subject: Re: Some minorly alarming discoveries
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:52 pm
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53Magnatone
Humblest apologies!
I am not sure how the quote picked up your handle. Indeed it was not your quote and again I unreservedly apologize.
The quote came from kingofesquire and I will try to amend it which I have now done. :oops:


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Post subject: Re: Some minorly alarming discoveries
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:14 pm
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No Problem... I just replied and the difficulty page popped up but now I seem to have lost what I wrote......

Anyhow to sort of recap my train of thought.... ( I'm sure my Iphone has an app for this :? )
I'm guessing that the problem may very well be in the string slots cut into the nut.
They should follow the curvature of the fretboard before the 1st fret.
Equally so down at the bridge saddles, the saddles should be in the same radius as the fretoard at the 20th fret.....

In either case I'm also guessing that the OP attempted to adjust, left the guitar unfinished for a while then returned at a latter time.... Not good to do that when setting up a guitar especially if days and weeks go by......

I feel we really don't have enough info to guess correctly and having built and still building my own Strats and Tele's from stock, the minutiae of setup really do confuse the issue if it is not done in the proper order.....

The OP needs to take that guitar to a reputable tech.... To see what's up....
just changing string gauge or brands will affect playability.....
That being said have the frets ever been dressed, even more critical if the guitar sits unused for long time periods....

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Post subject: Re: Some minorly alarming discoveries
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:24 pm
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53magnatone wrote:
OP... Take your guitar to a good tech at a reputable guitar store, onethat has been around for a few years.....
Rarely is it a truss rod issue when the buzz is below the 5th position.
Also since we cannot play and see the guitar there really is no way to pinpoint where the problem lies....
BTW .... how often do you change strings ? And what guage are you using....
also is this a vintage trem or a modern two point.
There really is too many little things to check....
But One I wouldn't do is detach the neck...
Let a tech see it first....

Good advice magtone. I wonder if he changed string size also? Some people tend to start over adjusting things and get the set up all out of sink!

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Post subject: Re: Some minorly alarming discoveries
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:37 pm
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kingofesquire wrote:
Sometimes the magnetic pull from the pickups cause issues with buzzing. I would lower them to rule this out.


Where in the world did you get this additional tidbit from :shock: :roll:
How in the world would you conclude that a neck pup's magnetic pull would affect the top 4 or 5 frets.....
Really.... magnetism that powerful would stop the strings from oscillating..... which would solve the issue of buzzing..... :?

Seriously if you offer advice then let it be correct, not some Wiki Urban legend....
If on the other note ... You are unsure than don't say anything especially if it sounds like it came from Spinal Tap .... :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Some minorly alarming discoveries
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:56 am
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kingofesquire wrote:
5mag....you can save your drama queen hissy fit and moronic self absorbed pompous behavior to somebody who gives a sh*t. Apparently you know nothing about building guitars or magnetism in relation to string oscillating. Just stick to what you do best....put on your dress and give us your best diva impersonation. In other words, just go off-line and jam to your Culture Club video collection.

I guess Kinman concurs with me.......http://www.kinman.com/Shop/more_strat.html


I refuse to have an intelligent argument with an unarmed man....

Culture Club..... WOW .... I guess we know what you adore..
Point is you are giving out regurgitated bad advice, I just P.M'd you since you've decided to take it to a personal level.
I stand by what I posted, you don't know what you are talking about.
As far as the Kinman link .....Thanks.... I needed entertainment over coffee.... :roll: :roll:

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Post subject: Re: Some minorly alarming discoveries
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:23 am
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Done with you after this post....

Back it up I did.... You however linked to a website segment which had nothing to do with the discussion at hand...... I'll let other's reach their own conclusion about the Kinman site.

This Forum is about accurate info, I called you on it and you still are taking it to a personal level....
You want to have an argument about a topic, then fine but ....
(1) Cannot hijack someone's thread so start a thread about this I'll be right there...
(2) You .... Have to back up your viewpoint, not by a copy and paste link but by explaining your position as to why or why not, if I'm incorrect then that is what a Forum is about.
(3) I trust I do not have to define both Argument and Forum.....

I'll reiterate once more..... New members and olde one's ask questions, in this case the OP is quite clearly miffed as to what is happening to his guitar. So you cannot suggest things that will make it worse..... If you cannot understand that simple premise than
so be it.....
BTW.....Way To GO .... introducing something I posted from past experience with a Gibson..... :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Some minorly alarming discoveries
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:06 pm
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Though I may be at risk of backlash, which is not intended, regarding anyone's prior posted opinion; from articles I have come across regarding pickup height, one of the factors noted is what has already been suggested and to consider in the interest of the OP's issue, is to rule out that as a possible cause. Hopefully the sources of this information are deemed worth consideration...http://ratcliffe.co.za/articles/pickupheight.shtml

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