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Post subject: What's the Back of your Neck like? Pics
Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:11 am
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I've started a "Relic" restoration using a NOS Jimmie Vaughan neck. I've refinished the Headstock and fretboard.

The neck isn't being "relic-ed", more of an AVRI treatment, Gloss Headstock and Semi-Gloss fretboard. The back of the neck is stock, Satin finish Poly.

What would you do with the back of the neck?

Rest of the story:

The Jimmie Vaughan neck has the specifications I like, small headstock, soft V profile (.89 @1st fret & .95 @ the 12th) and a vintage tint.

But the satin look and the "pimples" on the fretboard weren't satisfying me. Must have been a bad day for the FB finishing dep't. and QC to let this go by.

Image

So I sanded with 600 grit, taped, added throw away screws and tubing to keep the holes clean, then sprayed with Poly in aerosol cans.

Image

Image

The problem was the heavy poly spray on the frets. Steel wool alone wouldn't dent it, so they got carefully scraped with a flexible metal piece then scraped with a razor blade. The blade was pulled away from it's cutting edge to keep from gouging the soft fret material.

Image

Image

This is the result:

Image

Image

Lot of work but I'm happy with the end result. Question is, should I just polish the back of the neck, steel wool or sand it first or just?

What would you do?

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Last edited by danagos on Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: What's the Back of your Neck like? Pics
Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:26 am
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I myself would sand it down. I like the feel of bare wood. Just rub it with duch oil.


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Post subject: Re: What's the Back of your Neck like? Pics
Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:56 am
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tbazzone wrote:
I myself would sand it down. I like the feel of bare wood. Just rub it with duch oil.


Thanks t, sanding the finish off is one possibility.

Not being smart, but what is "duch oil"? I googled duch, dutch, duck and douche oils and nothing reasonable came up.

Except maybe Duck Oil and I would be concerned about using a cooking oil on my guitar neck. :)

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Post subject: Re: What's the Back of your Neck like? Pics
Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:35 am
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danagos wrote:
tbazzone wrote:
I myself would sand it down. I like the feel of bare wood. Just rub it with duch oil.


Thanks t, sanding the finish off is one possibility.

Not being smart, but what is "duch oil"? I googled duch, dutch, duck and douche oils and nothing reasonable came up.

Except maybe Duck Oil and I would be concerned about using a cooking oil on my guitar neck. :)

I'm sorry it's Danish oil. I put it on about every 3 months it keeps the wood from drying out to much


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Post subject: Re: What's the Back of your Neck like? Pics
Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:11 am
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tbazzone wrote:
danagos wrote:
tbazzone wrote:
I myself would sand it down. I like the feel of bare wood. Just rub it with duch oil.


Thanks t, sanding the finish off is one possibility.

Not being smart, but what is "duch oil"? I googled duch, dutch, duck and douche oils and nothing reasonable came up.

Except maybe Duck Oil and I would be concerned about using a cooking oil on my guitar neck. :)

I'm sorry it's Danish oil. I put it on about every 3 months it keeps the wood from drying out to much


Thanks, got it.

The Wiki explains further: Danish oil is a wood finishing oil, made of either tung oil or polymerized linseed oil. Danish oil is a 'long oil' finish: a mixture of oil and varnish, predominantly of oil.[1] A typical Danish oil is around one third varnish. The function of Danish oil is to provide a hard-wearing finish, rather than a particularly fine or high-gloss finish. Compared to oil, it is hard-wearing. Compared to a varnish, it is simple to apply. As the finished coating is not glossy or slippery, it is a suitable finish for tool handles, giving some additional weather resistance.

Danish oil is a hard drying oil which provides a tough, water-resistant finish. It can be used as a finish, or as a primer or sealer on bare wood before applying paint or varnish.


That's interesting, I was inclined to go with a polish.

Does the Danish Oil you use stain the neck? Do you play that guitar a lot? Four times a year seems high maintenance to me. :)

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Post subject: Re: What's the Back of your Neck like? Pics
Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:30 am
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I used the natural so it didn't tint the neck and I only rubbed it on with a rag. The neck still felt like natural wood it just sealed it from moisture. Unfortunately I sold the gutiar to get a custom shop gutiar but it was my main gutiar. It was a Avri 62 strat. I do miss it though. I hate sticky, glossy necks.


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Post subject: Re: What's the Back of your Neck like? Pics
Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:31 am
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danagos wrote:
But the satin look and the "pimples" on the fretboard weren't satisfying me. Must have been a bad day for the FB finishing dep't.

Image

Hi danagos: you're right, that really didn't look good. From the photo it looks like nothing so much as dust that's settled during one of the spray cycles and then got coated over. Almost as if it was sprayed right next to a sanding station, with the air full of fine saw dust or similar. But that's very odd, because Fender take great care to do their finishing in a carefully controlled dust-free environment - so I can't imagine how that happened.

Anyhow, looks like you've done an excellent job with the respray. Nuttin' wrong with that whatsoever - kudos! 8)

danagos wrote:
What would you do?

Exactly what you've done so far. I'd then leave it a good week or so to harden - regardless what it says about drying time on the tin. I know urethane has a much faster curing time than cellulose, but still, the harder it is when you come to buff it the better.

It looks like you have a nice flat shiny surface, so you can probably skip a lot of the traditional levelling and buffing stages. You could probably go straight in with P1500 grit wet-and-dry paper and gently rub it all over till it's got an even satin look. Then where you want it shiny (front of the headstock, etc) move on to P2000 paper, and then P2500. Finally polish up to a high gloss with car polish or even household metal polish.

You could do that all over, or if you like the satin look of the P1500 rub down just leave the back of the neck and perhaps the fingerboard at that stage. No further work required.

The total job will be almost as quick as this took me to type.

BTW: Danish oil is a treatment for naked wood. People use it on things like unvarnished wooden kitchen work surfaces and garden furniture. It is absolutely pointless putting it on wood that already has a nitro or urethane lacquer on it. All you'll do is pour it on and wipe it off again. No harm done, but a waste of time and product.

Anyway, again; a nice looking job. Congrats. :)

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: What's the Back of your Neck like? Pics
Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:09 pm
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Ceri wrote:

Hi danagos: you're right, that really didn't look good. From the photo it looks like nothing so much as dust that's settled during one of the spray cycles and then got coated over. Almost as if it was sprayed right next to a sanding station, with the air full of fine saw dust or similar. But that's very odd, because Fender take great care to do their finishing in a carefully controlled dust-free environment - so I can't imagine how that happened.

Anyhow, looks like you've done an excellent job with the respray. Nuttin' wrong with that whatsoever - kudos! 8)

danagos wrote:
What would you do?

Exactly what you've done so far. I'd then leave it a good week or so to harden - regardless what it says about drying time on the tin. I know urethane has a much faster curing time than cellulose, but still, the harder it is when you come to buff it the better.

It looks like you have a nice flat shiny surface, so you can probably skip a lot of the traditional levelling and buffing stages. You could probably go straight in with P1500 grit wet-and-dry paper and gently rub it all over till it's got an even satin look. Then where you want it shiny (front of the headstock, etc) move on to P2000 paper, and then P2500. Finally polish up to a high gloss with car polish or even household metal polish.

You could do that all over, or if you like the satin look of the P1500 rub down just leave the back of the neck and perhaps the fingerboard at that stage. No further work required.

The total job will be almost as quick as this took me to type.

Anyway, again; a nice looking job. Congrats. :)

Cheers - C[/quote]


Thanks for the kind words Ceri.

Looking up the equivalent grits in CAMI, you're recommending 800 to 1200 grit. I've got those on hand, thankfully, and the neck has cured over a week.

Meanwhile, waiting for the Gotoh SDS510 locking and height adjustable vintage tuners to come in. 8)


To sum up, it seems you prefer a lightly sanded, smooth back on the guitar neck, is that right?


I'm also spraying the relic-ed body with poly, currently working on the 4th coat and ready to pull my hair.

Much harder to get a good coat on, especially curved planes, and completely dust free seems impossible.

Monday I *may* look for an auto body shop to clear coat it for me. :roll:

Needless to say these are new techniques for me. I've always thought that a valuable part of the learning process includes the knowledge of what NOT to do anymore! :lol:

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Post subject: Re: What's the Back of your Neck like? Pics
Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:37 pm
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Ceri wrote:
danagos wrote:
But the satin look and the "pimples" on the fretboard weren't satisfying me. Must have been a bad day for the FB finishing dep't.

Image

Hi danagos: you're right, that really didn't look good. From the photo it looks like nothing so much as dust that's settled during one of the spray cycles and then got coated over. Almost as if it was sprayed right next to a sanding station, with the air full of fine saw dust or similar. But that's very odd, because Fender take great care to do their finishing in a carefully controlled dust-free environment - so I can't imagine how that happened.

Anyhow, looks like you've done an excellent job with the respray. Nuttin' wrong with that whatsoever - kudos! 8)

danagos wrote:
What would you do?

Exactly what you've done so far. I'd then leave it a good week or so to harden - regardless what it says about drying time on the tin. I know urethane has a much faster curing time than cellulose, but still, the harder it is when you come to buff it the better.

It looks like you have a nice flat shiny surface, so you can probably skip a lot of the traditional levelling and buffing stages. You could probably go straight in with P1500 grit wet-and-dry paper and gently rub it all over till it's got an even satin look. Then where you want it shiny (front of the headstock, etc) move on to P2000 paper, and then P2500. Finally polish up to a high gloss with car polish or even household metal polish.

You could do that all over, or if you like the satin look of the P1500 rub down just leave the back of the neck and perhaps the fingerboard at that stage. No further work required.

The total job will be almost as quick as this took me to type.

BTW: Danish oil is a treatment for naked wood. People use it on things like unvarnished wooden kitchen work surfaces and garden furniture. It is absolutely pointless putting it on wood that already has a nitro or urethane lacquer on it. All you'll do is pour it on and wipe it off again. No harm done, but a waste of time and product.

Anyway, again; a nice looking job. Congrats. :)

Cheers - C

As ceri has said the Danish oil is only for bare wood


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Post subject: Re: What's the Back of your Neck like? Pics
Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:01 pm
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tbazzone wrote:
As ceri has said the Danish oil is only for bare wood
tbazzone wrote:
I used the natural so it didn't tint the neck and I only rubbed it on with a rag. The neck still felt like natural wood it just sealed it from moisture. Unfortunately I sold the gutiar to get a custom shop gutiar but it was my main gutiar. It was a Avri 62 strat. I do miss it though. I hate sticky, glossy necks.

So you sanded the back of the AVRI Neck down to bare wood, then applied Danish Oil. Nice,there would certainly be nothing sticky about that finish.

Did you leave the Headstock glossy? I love that look.

I'd like to see it. Would a picture be available?

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Post subject: Re: What's the Back of your Neck like? Pics
Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:09 pm
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danagos wrote:
Looking up the equivalent grits in CAMI, you're recommending 800 to 1200 grit.

Hmm. Well, I don't use that system but a quick check says, yes, you're right.


danagos wrote:
Meanwhile, waiting for the Gotoh SDS510 locking and height adjustable vintage tuners to come in. 8)

Ah-ha! That's a great tuner model, I've used them several times and love them. The precisely adjustable pole height is especially nice. Good choice!


danagos wrote:
To sum up, it seems you prefer a lightly sanded, smooth back on the guitar neck, is that right?

Well, not particularly. I'm easy regarding gloss or matt, but a satin neck back is certainly nice and can sometimes make the hand feel faster moving up and down.

And the great thing is you can make up your own mind. Buff it to a P1500 satin level and then leave it there for a while and see how it feels. If you like it - job done. If you think you'd prefer it shinier just move on up the fineness grades of paper to get it to where you like it. A final polish with car polish will take it to a mirror gloss, if that's where you want to end up.

You choose your own neck finish! :)


danagos wrote:
I'm also spraying the relic-ed body with poly, currently working on the 4th coat and ready to pull my hair. Much harder to get a good coat on, especially curved planes, and completely dust free seems impossible.

Ah yes, anyone here who's sprayed lacquer knows exactly what you're talking about. Dust is the old enemy, that's for sure.

The good news is urethane is very forgiving. If you get dust particles at any stage just wait overnight then sand them off lightly with, say, P600 paper, de-nib to remove sanding residue and spray the next coat. You can do that as often as you like till it comes right, and with aerosols you don't even have to clean up a spray gun each time, so you can work is small stages.


danagos wrote:
Needless to say these are new techniques for me.

Yeah? Then again, respect. If those photos show your first try at this you're doing just fine. It sure looks better than before you started! Nice work, man. 8)

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: What's the Back of your Neck like? Pics
Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:41 pm
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Ceri wrote:
danagos wrote:
Meanwhile, waiting for the Gotoh SDS510 locking and height adjustable vintage tuners to come in. 8)

Ah-ha! That's a great tuner model, I've used them several times and love them. The precisely adjustable pole height is especially nice. Good choice!

Those Gotoh SDS510's seem nice, but difficult to obtain! No matter, I've still got work to do on the neck.

Speaking of which, that's good advice on using slightly finer grits on the back of the neck until satisfied.

As for clear coating the body, hopefully I can be forgiving towards the Urethane as well! :-)

I'm hoping this coat will get it to a point where wet sanding and running up the grits will get the job done.

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Post subject: Re: What's the Back of your Neck like? Pics
Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:15 pm
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danagos wrote:
tbazzone wrote:
As ceri has said the Danish oil is only for bare wood
tbazzone wrote:
I used the natural so it didn't tint the neck and I only rubbed it on with a rag. The neck still felt like natural wood it just sealed it from moisture. Unfortunately I sold the gutiar to get a custom shop gutiar but it was my main gutiar. It was a Avri 62 strat. I do miss it though. I hate sticky, glossy necks.

So you sanded the back of the AVRI Neck down to bare wood, then applied Danish Oil. Nice,there would certainly be nothing sticky about that finish.

Did you leave the Headstock glossy? I love that look.

I'd like to see it. Would a picture be available?

Only the back of the neck was sanded down the head stock was left alone. I don't have pics of it since I got rid of it. I wish I still had it though.


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Post subject: Re: What's the Back of your Neck like? Pics
Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:24 am
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Despite the Subject of this Post, I've done nothing to the back of the Jimmie Vaughan Neck I'm using on this build. :lol: The original satin urethane will be fine until it's assembled, then I can start sanding for feel.

Have been working on it though. The Headstock is refinished in Urethane Gloss and the fretboard sanded smooth and refinished in Urethane Semi-Gloss. Frets have been cleaned and polished. The Neck had never been assembled on a body, so the frets are new. The fretboard and frets were nearly perfect, when checked with a fret rocker and notched straight edge. Level with nice fall away above the 12th, so I'm leaving a leveling out at this point.

The Gotoh Vintage Tuners came in FINALLY!, (model SDS510 05M Nickel H.A.P. M.) very nice, height adjustable posts and locking.

Image

I turned to Ceri for advice on installing them and he is the Schanizzle!

First, installing the Bushings, two sets enclosed, one too small, the other too large! Ceri advised using the larger and because I don't own a "Cello Peghole Reamer", using sandpaper wrapped on a tapered paint brush handle. :shock:

Image
Image

Ceri advised using a rotating motion to keep the round and just barely getting the bushing to fit. I found that removing .3 mm per peghole required 220 grit and, eventually, a pair of vise grips to turn the handle, saving my fingers from ruin.

Next was adjusting the String Post Heights, nice to have staggered tuners, putting more break angle from the Nut, on the thinner strings. Using Ceri's pic and the (transmangled from the Japanese) instructions, I came up with the following. How useful it will be is still to be determined by actually playing, then adjusting accordingly.

Image

BTW, though I kid around, Josh Gemmel from JAParts, the North American distributor for Gotoh has been magnificent with me. Great customer service, high quality parts and blinding fast shipping, two days from Nagoya, Japan to Wayne, NEW Jersey! I recommend him without reservation. Can I plug him on here? :roll:

Back to work, I thought I'd have to buy either a 2mm drill bit or 7 shorter screws as those supplied were nearly 3mm longer than the original, or as the original holes measured.

I had read many accounts of screw heads shearing off. I also read one account of "...three turns in, two turns out..." method of screwing. I waxed the screws up nicely and turned ever so gently and Voila, (french for "whoop, there it is").

If you do this, don't force the screw, when you feel resistance, back off a turn. That advice could apply to a lot of situations! :wink:

The "Rock Solid" technology requires a stable string post guide to lessen wiggle when tuning. There are supplied adhesive strips in two thicknesses, a peghole probe and a bushing punch to remove old bushings or these when fit too tightly. I appreciate Gotoh's thoroughness.

Anyway, in all other respects the tuners were a direct replacement.

Image
Image

It's a great feeling to have that behind me, but there's still more work to be done on this build......

Image

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