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Post subject: Looking for a synth forum
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:46 am
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Ok...ok...this isn't really a Strat question per say but since the synth did come with a '98 Mexican Strat...

A couple of weeks back I picked up a Roland GR-30 Guitar Synth with a '98 Mexican Strat and a GK-2A pickup (all in -MINT- condition). While the pickup has since been put on another of my Strats and while I am -loving- this synth, it is...well...more than a bit beastly to use, let alone program patches for and the stinkin' Roland owners manual really looks like it was written by the same illiterate dinks who write PC motherboard manuals! Quite a bit of broken English and A LOT of missing info. While I like to think I know my guitars, particularly my Strats, inside and out, I am a total guitar synth newbie here and have a TON of questions.

Since the guitar isn't a "Roland-Ready" and since the questions apply exclusively to the synth anyways, I'm not really sure if it's appropriate to post them here on Fender.com or even how much help I'd really be able to get with this sucker. Soooo....can anyone suggest a decent Roland or guitar synth forum? I've done a Google search but unlike guitar and Strat forums which are pretty much a dime a dozen (no offense), I'm not really seeing a whole lot for synths. I could really use someone who has some hands on experience with this stuff to give me a push in the right direction.

Thanks!
Jim


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Post subject: Re: Looking for a synth forum
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:05 am
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Try here:

http://forums.rolandclan.com/index.php

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Post subject: Re: Looking for a synth forum
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:55 am
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Miami Mike wrote:



Yea, I had noticed that one before when I did a Google search, but that is forum really geared towards the Roland keyboards. Lots of stuff on the Fantom's and Juno's (a bud of mine had a Juno 106 MANY years ago, so at least I know what those are) but after doing a search, I've only seen 1 thread on the GR's...and that was about the midi sends, which oddly enough, I actually get (I do have a small degree of midi under my belt...just not with a guitar). Even under "Other Roland Gear" there's virtually no mention of the guitar synths at all.

Other ideas?


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Post subject: Re: Looking for a synth forum
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:27 am
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I've used Roland GK gear for years, what's your specific problem?

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Post subject: Re: Looking for a synth forum
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:01 am
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GilgaFrank wrote:
I've used Roland GK gear for years, what's your specific problem?



Honestly...the learning curve! LOL!!! For example, one of the things I'm trying to do is set different instruments to different strings. The band is doing a cover of John Melloncamp's Cherry Bomb and I'd like to set the accordion to the B and high E strings and put the violin on the lower 4 strings so I can do that intro and fills. Doesn't seem to work anything like the manual suggests...messed with that for almost 4 hours the other day and almost drove myself insane (except that I think I'm already there, LOL!). The manual says you can assign different instruments to different strings, but damned if I can figure out how. I can change the pitch of the patch on individual strings (via Tone Mix -> Trans 1st/Trans 2nd), but I just can't get the instruments to assign the way it seems they should. Then of course there's the arpeggiator...every time I've turned it on, it just scares the living hell outta me! From what little I've seen on the internet, it looks like there's some sort of software that's supposed to go with this thing (something that visually shows this "grid" since the LED display on the GR-30 obviously can't do that) so you can setup the appegiator on a PC via a midi connection...but the guy didn't include any software in the box. And no clue how to get past it to get to this harmonizer function. Then there's the issues of tweaking out the sounds themselves. I.e. a couple of the horn/brass sounds aren't bad but a couple are pretty aweful...would like to put a patch together that at least sound somewhat like a sax for doing the intro and ending of Bob Segar's Turn The Page (if ya haven't guessed, we're a Southern Rock cover band). While this isn't urgent as the guy is down in Florida at the moment, I have a bud with a Korg Triton and at some point I'd like to be able to plug into him and tap into his wave/sample library since this thing apparently doesn't do samples(?). And really, that's just the very tippy tip of the iceburg...which is why I was looking for a forum on these, so I could ask stuff as I'm going along and/or running into problems.

I have figured out how to move patches around and to some small....very small degree, have even figured out how to setup a few of my own patches. I was able to setup enough to do some decent piano and organ work at the last show and the guy I got it from already had a dynamite flute patch layed into it (far better than the stock flute sounds) that I was able to use for some Marshall Tucker, but since the band is taking August off for multiple vacations, I'm thinkin' this would be a good time to really get into this sucker. I've been rifling back and forth thru the manual and have even read a few sections repeatedly - like the thing up there about assigning different instruments to different strings...even had the wife read that section and she agreed that it just doesn't seem to be doing what the manual says it should.

So yea...like I said above there, I already have a ton of questions and I suspect I'm going to have even more as I get more into this thing over the next month or so. I'd really like to be able to take full advantage of this thing but so far about the only thing the manual really seems to be good for is...well...lighting a campfire.


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Post subject: Re: Looking for a synth forum
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:13 am
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If you're using an external MIDI synth and MONO mode then the strings get ouput on MIDI channels 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. The STRING SELECT knob should let you dial in a different MIDI patch or internal patch (or transpose) for each string.

However, if you're just using the internal sounds of the GR-30 then you are limited to layering between two internal tones. The manual says ...

"Set EDIT TARGET to TONE MIX and the PARAMETER SELECT dial to A (LAYER)"

Then use the STRING SELECT knob to select each tone's layer amount for each string.

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Post subject: Re: Looking for a synth forum
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:00 am
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This may be helpful too ...

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/gu ... nth-users/

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Post subject: Re: Looking for a synth forum
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:14 am
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Regarding the arpeggiator, you can program arp patterns in STEP mode without an external controller, see page 60 of the manual.

And the sounds ... well yes, it's an old unit and nothing goes out of date as quickly as a synth sound. Synth voices that were cutting edge 10 years ago sound horribly dated now, all you can really do is upgrade to a new external synth module every so often. Even then, things like sax sounds are very difficult to use convincingly. And I suspect that when audiences hear a sax sound and don't see a sax player they probably wonder what's going on!

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Post subject: Re: Looking for a synth forum
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:32 am
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GilgaFrank wrote:
If you're using an external MIDI synth and MONO mode then the strings get ouput on MIDI channels 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. The STRING SELECT knob should let you dial in a different MIDI patch or internal patch (or transpose) for each string.

However, if you're just using the internal sounds of the GR-30 then you are limited to layering between two internal tones. The manual says ...

"Set EDIT TARGET to TONE MIX and the PARAMETER SELECT dial to A (LAYER)"

Then use the STRING SELECT knob to select each tone's layer amount for each string.


No, not using an external sequencer yet (although I suspect it's coming) so at the moment, yes, just using the internal sounds.

I think I tried your suggestion there and it didn't work, but I'll give it another shot...I was getting quite frustrated by that point, so I may have missed something. For now at least, all I really need is 2 sounds separated on the strings...again the accordion on B and E and violin on the bottom 4 strings. I think much more than that right now and my poor little head will likely explode from the information over-load, LOL!

Quote:
This may be helpful too ...


I'm not terribly fond of Yahoo because any more it's just virus central (both my brother and a friend of mine are Yahoo freaks and you have no idea how many times I've had to clean their PC's), but I will certainly take a look at that one.

Quote:
Regarding the arpeggiator, you can program arp patterns in STEP mode without an external controller, see page 60 of the manual.


Yea...still too much of a chickensh_t to get into that yet, LOL! I kind of figured it worked like that as the patterns in the book reminded me of my old Boss drum machine...has to be programmed in a similar fashion. That said, I still feel like I need to learn to crawl before I can walk with that one......

Quote:
And the sounds ... well yes, it's an old unit and nothing goes out of date as quickly as a synth sound. Synth voices that were cutting edge 10 years ago sound horribly dated now, all you can really do is upgrade to a new external synth module every so often. Even then, things like sax sounds are very difficult to use convincingly.


Over-all I'm actually pretty pleased with most of the sounds this thing has. In fact, my lead guy and I were talking after the show the other night and we both agreed that for the stuff we do (not to mention how we do it), that piano sound was actually pretty sweet...instead of sounding like some incredible studio grand or something, it really comes off sounding like a beat up old honkey tonk bar piano...except in tune! LOL!!! It really did work out well for our stuff. And honestly, some of the organ sounds are better...WAY better than some of the B3 soft synths I've used over the years...that F11 "jazz organ" is just downright wicked! I'm already trying to figure out Deep Purple's "Lazy" with it :-)

I sort of grew up with a couple of old analog synths (a bud used to have an old Juno 106, a Moog and...gasp...a Lowery) and have played with similar software emulators in the studio over the years (particularly Propellerhead's Reason), so I do get what you say here. I actually think most of the sounds are pretty usable...at least for the stage, but a few of them are going to need some tweaks at the very least. For example...ok...yea...the sax sound on this thing just sucks, but the trumpet and flugel horn sounds really aren't too bad at all. I think may be able to tweak out one of those to get it close enough to a sax sound to use on stage...once I figure this silly thing out that is.

Quote:
And I suspect that when audiences hear a sax sound and don't see a sax player they probably wonder what's going on!


This just cracks me up...that's actually reason the guy I bought it from said that he had bought it himself. The guy is a bass player and had been out one eve to see a local band and after a few minutes, he realized that while he was hearing a bass, he wasn't seeing a bass player on stage. He said it took him a bit to realize that the bass lines were coming from the guitar player (by watching people's fingers) and during a break he went up and asked the guy how he was doing it. Said he made notes of everything the guy was using (including a Mexican Strat), went out the next day and bought the identical same rig. His thinking (among other things) was that he could use the arpeggiator function on the unit to do chords and such, again since he was a bass player and not a guitar player, but soon realized that doing such things on a guitar just isn't quite the same as doing it on a bass (or other instruments for that matter)...which is why the unit, despite being older, is in mint condition...he just never really learned how to use it with a guitar (and the '98 Strat is just flawless with almost no fret wear at all to prove it).

That said, our lead singer has been using a TC Helicon harmonizer for a while now. With only 4 of us on stage and only 2 or 3 of us singing at any given moment, it's pretty clear that there just isn't a 30 piece choir behind us...I suspect our regular following is pretty use to us dipping into the toy box by now 8).



Anyways, I have a TON of cleaning to do today as the realtor is coming out to the house this eve for a walk thru (the wife and I are FINALLY getting the hell out of Dodge) so I won't really be able to get into stuff today, but don't be surprised if I tap you in a day or two here with a few more questions...particularly regarding that issue of putting different instruments on different strings.

Thanks for the input...I'm grateful!
Jim


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Post subject: Re: Looking for a synth forum
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:17 pm
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My one complaint with the early Roland units is the lack of an LCD screen for programming. The idea is that you set parameters by moving a select knob then hit +/- keys to set the value. While it may save Roland a minimal amount of money on each unit it does make them somewhat daunting to start editing. Later units came with an editor util and USB connectivity, I still use my old GI-20 for that reason.

Some Googling has turned up this V-Guitar forum AND, wait for it ... a GR-30 editing util for Windows.

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index. ... ads;cat=25

For units without USB, these editors work by sending and receiving MIDI SYSEX over two MIDI cables. Got to be worth a look!

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Post subject: Re: Looking for a synth forum
Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:59 am
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lomitus wrote:
So yea...like I said above there, I already have a ton of questions and I suspect I'm going to have even more as I get more into this thing over the next month or so. I'd really like to be able to take full advantage of this thing but so far about the only thing the manual really seems to be good for is...well...lighting a campfire.


Your first introduction to Roland manuals, I take it?

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Post subject: Re: Looking for a synth forum
Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:08 pm
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GilgaFrank wrote:
My one complaint with the early Roland units is the lack of an LCD screen for programming. The idea is that you set parameters by moving a select knob then hit +/- keys to set the value. While it may save Roland a minimal amount of money on each unit it does make them somewhat daunting to start editing. Later units came with an editor util and USB connectivity, I still use my old GI-20 for that reason.
Quote:

Yea, I'm sure mine doesn't have USB. I had noticed a piece of software floating around out there, but when I tried to snag it, it require forum membership and I didn't have the time at the
at moment to run thru all that. Will probably check that first thing next week.

Quote:
Some Googling has turned up this V-Guitar forum AND, wait for it ... a GR-30 editing util for Windows.
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index. ... ads;cat=25


That may have been where I saw it but I will certainly look again.


Quote:
For units without USB, these editors work by sending and receiving MIDI SYSEX over two MIDI cables. Got to be worth a look!


Actually that's the big reason I just poked my head in here. Question; will these Roland GS units work with something like a basic Behringer Midi controller (or something similar)...and if so, what parameters and such can you set to the external unit? This is what I"m looking at...

http://cleveland.craigslist.org/msg/3972385266.html

What all, if anything, could I do with something like that plugged into the GR-30?

Also, any idea how to setup a pedal, either on the Roland unit itself or on an external/extension pedal to work like a sustain pedal on a piano, for a piano patch?



Thanks,
Jim


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Post subject: Re: Looking for a synth forum
Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:25 am
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Post subject: Re: Looking for a synth forum
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:49 am
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I use roland equipped strats and familiar with all the Roland synths, currently using the GR 55. WWW.vguitarforum.com is the place to go.......


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