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Post subject: Any Leads on a Nut for a 1986 MIJ Neck?
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:01 pm
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I have a MIJ 1986 Strat. The nut broke as it was the original. Anyway, I purchased an after market Graph Tech nut. Once it arrived, the nut is not contoured to match the neck. I'm not sure what the radius is on the 1986 neck, but it is substantially different than my 1989 American version. Does anyone know what the correct replacement would be? Yes, I suppose I could make one, but man, I just don't have the time and patience that I used to have. Any help will be appreciated.

Lee


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Post subject: Re: Any Leads on a Nut for a 1986 MIJ Neck?
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:04 pm
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hi Lee,
Lots of different MIJ 86 models, so it depends. There was the contemporary series, some standards, I believe the 50's and 60's models were out around then too. So....could be 7.25 (Vintage style) 12" and I guess perhaps not 9.5 since you state that its different then the U.S. 89.
a little more info, I'm sure one of us can give some better advice.

All the best,
rob

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Post subject: Re: Any Leads on a Nut for a 1986 MIJ Neck?
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:34 pm
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leebowling1976 wrote:
Yes, I suppose I could make one, but man, I just don't have the time and patience that I used to have.


If that's the case, then just take it to a (good) pro. Fitting a nut & setting up the guitar won't cost you that much, at least compared to the hassle of hunting for "the right nut".
And, IMHO, there are no drop-in replacement nuts.


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Post subject: Re: Any Leads on a Nut for a 1986 MIJ Neck?
Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:17 am
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jmattis wrote:
IMHO, there are no drop-in replacement nuts.

Hi jmattis: matter o' fact, I've several times had pre-cut Graphtechs slot in with little adjustment to slot height needed. And twice I've found no adjustments required whatsoever, so they literally were drop-in replacements. Though with readymade nuts you do have to be prepared to measure and adjust the slots if necessary - which can depend on a bunch of factors.

And of course it also depends on choosing the right nut for the fingerboard radius, as Rob says.

Knowing the Strat model and matching the right aftermarket nut to it is a good start. Alternatively, tailor-cutting a nut from a blank is a simple and affordable job for any (competent) tech, if leebowling1976 prefers to go that route. In that case, looking up your nearest Authorised Fender Dealer is the next step.

Good luck - C

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Post subject: Re: Any Leads on a Nut for a 1986 MIJ Neck?
Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:37 am
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You're of course quite right, Ceri, and I should have added the :wink: symbol on that statement. It's just me you know - I never can just drop a new nut in; gotta give it the final touch in some way, be it just polishing the groove bottoms or completely making the nut from raw bone block.

But: the OP has the nut, 'round here they charge in the range of 40€ (50$) to fit it in & set the guitar up, takes maybe an hour.
Comparing that to waiting online for answers, ordering the really right ( :wink: ) nut, waiting for delivery...


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Post subject: Re: Any Leads on a Nut for a 1986 MIJ Neck?
Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:59 am
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jmattis wrote:
You're of course quite right, Ceri, and I should have added the :wink: symbol on that statement. It's just me you know - I never can just drop a new nut in; gotta give it the final touch in some way, be it just polishing the groove bottoms or completely making the nut from raw bone block.

Hey jmattis, we're on the same page, for sure. :)

Buying any kind of nut we've got to assume there will be at least some tweaks required, and maybe more. If we get away with less now and again, that's a bonus.

Still, speaking as a guy whose approach to nut-making is "first catch your cow" ( :wink: :D ), I must admit I've been pleasantly surprised how good readymade nuts can be.

Cheers man - C

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Post subject: Re: Any Leads on a Nut for a 1986 MIJ Neck?
Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:30 am
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Nuts and cows -> thoughts of making some syllabub..? Must be Friday. And a good one.

IMHE (E=experience), you can get a good nut from a shop, but there usually is a little (planned) tolerance - the nut's too high, either to the recommended specs or at least to my liking.
(Not to mention those groove bottoms, or different frets, strings etc.)

(NC-17 rating:) Come to think of it, I try to get the 1st fret clearance (capo'd on third) according to an old guide note I once saw laying on an even older luthier's table:
"off by a red --nt hair" (The note was a bit messy, I guess the third word is "aunt")


Last edited by jmattis on Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Any Leads on a Nut for a 1986 MIJ Neck?
Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:47 am
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Ha - marvellous! :D

Especially this bit:
jmattis wrote:
...thouhts of making some syllabub..? Must be Friday. And a good one.

Syllabub - I like your mind! I bet that's the first time that word has been written on the Fender Forum... 8)

(Ceri reaches lazily for another sachet of Angel Delight. Well, it's Friday, after all...)

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: Any Leads on a Nut for a 1986 MIJ Neck?
Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:41 pm
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The joys of rural living! I have no shops within 75 miles of me. :lol: If the 89 has a 9.5" radius, I would assume it would be a 7-1/4"" radius. The guitar was bought so long ago no one knows what model Strat it is. I am the second owner of it as it was purchased by my uncle around 86 or 87. All I have is the S/N. I do have experience with creating nuts, but I was hoping to find something to fit it, pre-slotted, so I have to do as little work as possible. If that's the route I have to take, then so be it. I'm getting a tad bit lazy in my older age!
Thanks for the responses so far.

Lee


Last edited by leebowling1976 on Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Any Leads on a Nut for a 1986 MIJ Neck?
Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:19 pm
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I have a 86 contemporary squire neck would that work? The neck is roached but the tuners/nut is good.


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Post subject: Re: Any Leads on a Nut for a 1986 MIJ Neck?
Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:41 am
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Hi again Lee

leebowling1976 wrote:
The joys of rural living! I have no shops within 75 miles of me.

No worries, we can sort this between us if you're up for the task. You need:

CERI'S GUIDE TO FIXING PRE-CUT NUT WOES

Firstly:

leebowling1976 wrote:
...I would assume it would be a 7-1/4"" radius...

Ah well, as Rob said, we can't assume on that point. We need to know - that's the first stage of this thing. You'll have to measure your neck's radius and for that you need a couple of radius guides. You can buy them from Stewart-MacDonald - the smooth one's on this page, for example:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_su ... auges.html

But since you may not want to pay $22.95 for a tool you'll possibly never use again you could also make your own, perfectly good enough for this job. Take some thin card - a cereal box is ideal - and with a compass draw sections of two circles, one with a 7.25" radius, one 9.5". Like this (I used my radius gauges instead of compasses, but it amounts to the same thing):

Image

Then cut it out accurately and, bingo, your own radius gauge:

Image

Then you just hold it against your fingerboard, or better still the top of the frets (since that's your actual playing surface), and find out what you've got.

I suspect you're going to find you have a 9.5" neck, whereas you've probably bought a 7.25" ready slotted nut from GraphTech or whoever. (Actually, I've a feeling GraphTech don't even make a 9.5" one, since it's so quick to adjust the slots on the 7.5 to fit. Other makers, I don't know.)

If that's right you are going to have to adjust the middle slots downwards to correct the radius, but first you need to get the nut sitting overall at the right depth. For this you are going to need at least some basic tools - feeler gauges and a steel rule. Feeler gauges can be had for pennies from automotive parts shops or online - Ebay is smothered in them. Here's a set, just for example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Tools-25025 ... 413wt_1170

That set is handy because they are calibrated in both metric and imperial, which can be useful.

First, measure the height of your frets. Like this. Lay the steel ruler edge on across the tops of the frets and use the gauges to measure the gap beneath it and the fingerboard:

Image

What you do is stack up several of the feeler blades till they exactly fill the gap:

Image

Then you add up the thicknesses and that will give you the height of your frets:

Image

Now you need to measure the height of the nut slots on the outside E strings. Pop the nut in place, string up both Es and in the same way as above, measure the gap between the underside of each string and the fingerboard.

The gap will be bigger than the height of the frets. Received wisdom is that the nut slots should be 0.020" / 0.5mm higher than the frets. If yours are higher than that on either or both sides you need to reduce the overall height of the nut. You do that by sanding its bottom edge. Carefully rub it side to side on a sheet of sand paper (P180-ish is probably good for this), like this:

Image

If it was higher on the bass side press a bit more at that end to reduce it more on that side. Or vice versa.

But no matter how careful you are you will sand a slight curve onto the bottom of the nut - it's impossible not to. So then you need to gently remove a bit of material from the middle, to straighten it. Like this (this photo is doing the nut thickness rather than height, but it's the same process):

Image

Try the nut in position several times during this process till you have its height perfect at either end. When it's right, seat it in place and string up the rest of the strings. Now measure the gaps beneath the middle four strings. If your neck is a 9.5" and it's a 7.25" nut you will find that the middle slots are too high and will need adjusting downwards. There's a right way to do this and a cheat's workaround. I'll show you both.

Correct method of adjusting nut slots

Personally, I'd hate to do this without nut files (though they're relatively expensive and you may resent buying them for a one-off job). If it's just the middle strings you can get away with just one or two files: a nut file needs to be three or four thou bigger than the string it's cutting a slot for. So for example a 0.020" file for a 0.016" string. Though there's wiggle room so you can sometimes get away with using one file for two slots.

There are single and double-edged nut files; the single-edged ones work out most economical - like these:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Nuts,_saddl ... Files.html

By measurement work out which slots you have to adjust and only buy the files you need.

How to use nut files. Stack your feeler gauges to the height of the fret plus 0.020" / 0.5mm. (You found the height of the frets earlier and made a note of it...) Now place that stack of feeler blades against the front of the nut - that's the height you have to file down to. Like this:

Image

It is very important as you work to keep the file tilting a little backwards, towards the headstock. So that the breaking point on the nut is right at the front edge (the side nearest the frets). Like this:

Image

File away very gently until the file just touches the feeler gauges, then stop. The nut slot will now be the right height. Repeat for all the slots.

Those who didn't know before now understand what very good value a professionally done nut job from a proper luthier/tech is. Never complain about that cost ever again.

Lee, the above is the right way to do the job. However, you probably feel you don't want to pay out for those surprisingly expensive files for a task you possibly won't ever do again. So there is also a cheat's work around. This is very crude, so don't tell anyone I told you...

Bluffer's nut files

We can make rough-and-ready nut files by cutting a length from an old string of a slightly smaller gauge than the slot we are working on (for example, a 0.009" string to cut a 0.016" slot) and then folding a small sheet of fine grit wet-and-dry paper around it. Like this:

Image

Image

Then you use the string-&-paper file the same way I described with real nut files - like this:

Image

That's a highly illegal way to work, I'm embarrassed even to mention it and you must never, never tell anyone you got that idea from me.

But it works.

And there ya go. You now know everything you need to fix your nut problems, without driving 75 miles.

Roll your sleeves up...

Good luck - C

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Post subject: Re: Any Leads on a Nut for a 1986 MIJ Neck?
Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:49 am
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WOW! Ceri, I can't thank you enough for your post. I'm often amazed by the kindness of strangers.

I did find the correct radius for my neck. It is indeed 7.25". After inspecting the nut I purchased, I think by following your tutorial, I can make it work. I will keep you posted on my results. Once again, a million thanks for the time and knowledge to help me me out.

Lee


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