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Post subject: How to clear lacquer finished strat
Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 2:56 pm
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Hi all
I have an American vintage 62' Reissue strat. this week i shielded my guitar but unfortunately i accidentally dropped a very little drop of cyanoacrylate glue ( super glue) on the body out of the pickguard range. this is killing me cause i love this guitar and the lacquer finish is so sensitive that i cant use any strong solvent on it and the glue doesnt come off with water , soap or any regular soft cleaner ( obvious ) . so i very urgently would like to know if there is a way so that i can wipe this drop off of my conscious. Any help is highly appreciated,


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Post subject: Re: How to clear lacquer finished strat
Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 3:59 pm
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I would suggest you take the guitar to a good luthier for evaluation and possible cleaning/repair. If the drop won't just lift off using your finger nail, there may not be an easy way for you to safely remove it. However, Super Glue is used for repairs and can be sanded and buffed to match the finish. If you don't have the skill or tools to do this, let a pro handle it. Chemicals will probably do more damage to the finish if applied improperly.

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Post subject: Re: How to clear lacquer finished strat
Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:18 pm
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Hi kaveh: the solvent for cyanoacrylate is acetone. Unfortunately, acetone is also the solvent for nitrocellulose, which is the finish on your AVRI '62, so you can't dissolve the glue without also dissolving the lacquer. Chemistry is not your friend on this one.

Instead, as bluesky636 says, the answer is to very carefully scrape and strip-sand the lump of glue off by the method Dan Erlewine illustrates in this article:

http://www.stewmac.com/tradesecrets/ts0 ... ign=ts0040

Once the finish is level you just buff it up to a nice shine, exactly as Dan shows you on that page.

It is perfectly possible, but it will take a lot of care to end up with an invisible repair. If you have any doubts about doing it then take the guitar to good, well-recommended tech/luthier and pay a few dollars. Small beans compared to the price of the guitar.

Good luck - C

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Post subject: Re: How to clear lacquer finished strat
Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:39 pm
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Man, that looks scary. I'll stick to repairing amps, thank you very much. I'd rather get hit with 400 VDC than risk further damage to the finish of one of my guitars. :shock:




J/K, but a lot of care is required to effect a repair like that and Dan has been doing things like that since the stone age. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: How to clear lacquer finished strat
Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 5:25 pm
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Yeah, I USED to worry about the finish on my '62 AVRI... about 25 years ago.

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Post subject: Re: How to clear lacquer finished strat
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 7:19 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
I would suggest you take the guitar to a good luthier for evaluation and possible cleaning/repair. If the drop won't just lift off using your finger nail, there may not be an easy way for you to safely remove it. However, Super Glue is used for repairs and can be sanded and buffed to match the finish. If you don't have the skill or tools to do this, let a pro handle it. Chemicals will probably do more damage to the finish if applied improperly.


Hi bill , thanks for the reply . i wished there exist a luthier or an authorized fender repair center here . but i live in iran and we dont have the luxury of pro luthiers here so this solution is out of question .i have to do what i have to do all by my clumsy self .


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Post subject: Re: How to clear lacquer finished strat
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 7:24 am
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Ceri wrote:
Hi kaveh: the solvent for cyanoacrylate is acetone. Unfortunately, acetone is also the solvent for nitrocellulose, which is the finish on your AVRI '62, so you can't dissolve the glue without also dissolving the lacquer. Chemistry is not your friend on this one.

Instead, as bluesky636 says, the answer is to very carefully scrape and strip-sand the lump of glue off by the method Dan Erlewine illustrates in this article:

http://www.stewmac.com/tradesecrets/ts0 ... ign=ts0040

Once the finish is level you just buff it up to a nice shine, exactly as Dan shows you on that page.

It is perfectly possible, but it will take a lot of care to end up with an invisible repair. If you have any doubts about doing it then take the guitar to good, well-recommended tech/luthier and pay a few dollars. Small beans compared to the price of the guitar.

Good luck - C


hey C , how are ya doing . I know acetone will damage the finish but maybe a touch of very thinned acetone applied to a microfiber cloth may not do so much of a damage ?? do u have the experience of applying acetone to the lacquer finished surfaces ? may be a rapid cleaning with soap and water after that and not touching the instrument for several days lessen the risk ? there is no easy way ? really ???? :|


Last edited by kaveh on Thu May 09, 2013 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: How to clear lacquer finished strat
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 7:26 am
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Furvel wrote:
Yeah, I USED to worry about the finish on my '62 AVRI... about 25 years ago.

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Age brings wisdom ,
maybe 25 years later i dont give a damn either :D


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Post subject: Re: How to clear lacquer finished strat
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:13 am
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kaveh wrote:
Ceri wrote:
- As above -


hey C , how are ya doing . I know acetone will damage the finish but maybe a touch of very thinned acetone applied to a microfiber cloth may not do so much of a damage ?? do u have the experience of applying acetone to the lacquer finished surfaces ? may be a rapid cleaning with soap and water after that and not touching the instrument for several days lessen the risk ? there is no easy way ? really ???? :|

Hi again kaveh: honestly, I wouldn't touch that lacquer with acetone. Far too risky - very unlikely to be able to dissolve the glue without damaging the nitro too.

But don't worry, we're here to help.

Iran, huh? Man, that's a country I haven't visited yet and I'd love to see it! Unfortunately, I'm busy right now and can't jump on a plane to come and work on your lacquer problem, but we can help you to help yourself over the internet. First, have another look at that Dan Erlewine page (above). He is putting a drop of cellulose on there to repair a dent in the finish, but essentially the levelling out process is the same as what you need to do.

If you don't want to try his razor blade technique then go straight on to the strip-sanding. This is reasonably simple and very easy to control accurately. Begin by cutting yourself several strips of sandpaper, or better still wet-and-dry paper (emery paper - whatever you like to call it: your English seems excellent).

Like Dan, start with something around P300-400 and work your way up in stages to about P800. I've done you some pictures. Here's a strip of sandpaper:

Image

And here's a wobbly little demo of how to use it for strip-sanding:

Image

As you see, you press with one finger where the bump you want to level is, and pull the paper underneath with the other hand, to create a human sanding machine. You can put as much or as little pressure as you like with your finger to control how much material you take off. And you will find you can direct the pressure with your fingertip perfectly accurately.

By this method you can take off the lump of glue but not damage the surrounding lacquer. When it is nearly flat move to finer sandpaper, and then finer. By the time you've got to P800 the surface should now be flat. Next, you polish the area gently with P1000 wet-and-dry paper, or use micromesh pads if you prefer. Then go on to P1500, P2000, P2500 and even to P3000 and above if you feel like it. Each grade of paper is reducing the scratches made by the previous one, till they are so tiny that it just looks like a slightly dull area on the finish. You may think it will save time to go straight to the finer grades of paper but it won't. Working your way steadily through the grades is the quickest and best way to do it.

Finally, you can just buff the lacquer to a mirror shine with car swirl remover, or household metal polish or even toothpaste (truly): all of those are essentially surface polishes with a very mild abrasive in them.

Presto, the job is done.

It has probably taken me longer to take, edit and upload the photos than it will for you to do the task. It ain't a biggy.

Any help? More questions, just ask.

Good luck - C

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Post subject: Re: How to clear lacquer finished strat
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:34 am
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I bought a used a Orville Les Paul Custom once that had what I believe to be super glue drips on the back of it (seems someone tried to glue on the bottom strap button and didn't count on overspill).

I fixed it in the manner Ceri (and Erlewine) suggested. Except I didn't scrape with a razor blade. I just lightly sanded it down using like 1200 grit paper. That left quite an ugly mess, or course, but, never fear, a little rubbing out with some 3M Scratch and Swirl Remover (polishing compound -- purchased from the automotive section of a local department store) brought it back to shiny, smooth "newness."

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Post subject: Re: How to clear lacquer finished strat
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:45 am
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orvilleowner wrote:
...



Shock horror! Thought you'd dropped off the planet O.O


If ever you want testimony of Ceri's work,
Spot the cracks, the headstock of this Les Paul was hanging by the veneer on the front when I took it to him.

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When it comes to repairs, he knows what he's talking about. No one believes me that the thing was ever broken.

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Post subject: Re: How to clear lacquer finished strat
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 10:17 am
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Gosh, Nick: I thought we didn't talk about that Les Paul repair in public? :)

Is it still in one piece? Hasn't snapped off again? If so - phew!

That's a hide glue repair. The glue-up was comparatively straight-foward - second time around. It was the (near) invisible repair to the tinted lacquer that kept me busy with the tiny brushes. :D

Actually, I have pics where you can just about see the break line. Am I allowed to post them...?

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: How to clear lacquer finished strat
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 10:35 am
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I'd love to see them, as I can't remember where the break was. No one believes me that the thing had broke. So please, post away.

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Post subject: Re: How to clear lacquer finished strat
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:04 am
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Okey dokey. Well, just a bit of background. Nick phoned me one morning nearly in despair: the headstock had broken off his Les Paul and was just hanging on by the black front veneer. You have never known a gentleman more upset about a damaged guitar.

I told him to bring it over and he jumped on a train and arrived a couple of hours later. The wood had splintered but the fibres hadn't actually twisted and distorted so it seemed like a straight-forward glue-up job. We mixed up some hide glue, reassembled the pieces, cramped it in place and went out for a spot of food and some amber fluid.

When we got back the glue should have been set, so we uncramped the mend... and it started breaking open again. This time it was my heart that nearly stopped. Imagine screwing up a repair job right in front of the eyes of the great Nikininja!! Yikes.

I had an idea we perhaps just hadn't mixed the glue quite strong enough so I had Nick leave the guitar with me and did the repair again, ve-e-e-e-ery slowly and carefully. There were a few tiny splinters which had become detatched and needed reassembling like a three-dimensional jigsaw, and then I slathered it in glue and cramped it up and left it for 24 hours.

The next problem was the lacquer, which was also cracked and flaked off. Worse, it is tinted lacquer and stained timber, which can be a nightmare to match. So I sanded an area around the break down to the wood and then very carefully retinted it using waterbased stain. I used tiny watercolour brushes to paint grain onto some of the splinters to disguise where the break line was and then used vintage tinted nitro to respray.

Then a simple level, buff and polish, and voila: a fixed neck break.

Here is the neck in lighting meant to pick out the crack. The red arrow indicates one of the tiny lozenge shaped splinters: you can just see the break zigzagging away from it to either side:

Image

There was a bit of a story to returning the guitar as well. Nick came back to town and we went to a Joe Bonamassa gig together, prior to which he cuddled his guitar in a pub for couple of hours. He stayed over night and the next morning we took a look in daylight. At which point he decided the slotting of the nut wasn't quite perfect any more - maybe things had shifted a bit in the break or repair. So I said I'd make a new nut on the spot - and then having not even got dressed yet spent the next several hours sitting in my nightshirt in the garden carving away at a lump of bone under the eagle eyes of Nikininja while Mrs C brought us cups of frothy coffee. That may have been the most difficult bit of the whole task; making a new Les Paul nut while Nick, a famous nut-maker himself, watched critically. Good Lord, that was a high stress job! :lol:

Anyroadup: Ed Roman thinks it was all worth it, supposedly. So...

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: How to clear lacquer finished strat
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:28 am
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I've had the guitar looked at by several Les Paul fanatics, one who breaks a headstock yearly. One a vintage guitar collector. Neither can believe there was ever a break. One pointed to a area of grain on the neck, much further down. A friend that worked for John Birch Guitars can't believe the neck ever broke.

If ever there was anyone to teach lacquer and repair Ceri, it is you. You did an utterly outstanding job. The nut has never needed to be touched either. I'm careful with the guitar and spent a bit on a Hiscox case. It never goes in the boot, much to the chagrin of my bands singer and bassist who end up having it on their knees in the back of the car.

And ask Alycia if you don't believe me, I wasn't distressed, I was in tears when I called you.

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