It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:54 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Open G String Feedback
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 8:31 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:33 pm
Posts: 77
Hello all,

I'm after some help please. I'm very new to single coil pickups, only getting my first Strat last year so please forgive my lack of knowledge. I have a 2012 Custom Shop Deluxe Strat with Abby hand wound pickups. It plays and sounds like an absolute dream, but with one exception.
When playing any chords with an open G string it causes feedback (or an open harmonic), even on the clean channel. The higher the gain goes, the worse it gets and it does it on every pickup setting. The guitar has been set up, but looking at the photos below it seems to me that the poles on all three pickups under the G string are too high. I understand they should be the highest poles, but is this too high?
Obviously with these pickups you can't adjust individual poles, so what's the best solution? I don't want to start lowering the whole pickup (unless that's the best thing to do) as I know that can have a big effect on the tone of the guitar, which I love. Saying that, they seem to very high output, especially compared to my MIM CP 50's Strat which sounds reeeeeeally weedy in comparison. The action isn't low either, so I don't want to raise the saddles. The G string one does look a little low though, or is it not? Again, apologies for my lack of ignorance with Strat setups.


Image


Image


I've never had this problem on any guitar, never mind one with single coils, so I'm not sure what's the best thing to do to get rid of it. I don't want to just start randomly fiddling with my most prized guitar. Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

_________________
2012 Cherry Sunburst Custom Shop Deluxe Strat
2015 Black Eric Clapton Signature Strat
2015 Olympic Pearl US HSS Deluxe Strat
2013 Aged Cherry Sunburst Plus Top HSS Strat with FR


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Open G String Feedback
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 9:17 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:33 am
Posts: 8461
Location: Mars, the angry red planet.
There are millions of players who have no substantial problems with their similar pickups but there are millions of players who in fact, do. Obviously, you are in the latter category. As single coil pickups are a "primitive" lot, I know this isn't what you want to read but aside from changing them out, the only viable options left are to lower them and/or to change your rig's settings when using this particular guitar.

_________________
You dig?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Open G String Feedback
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 9:38 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 2:49 am
Posts: 560
Location: Perth, Australia
What about rotating your pickups in their positions so that the highest pole lies beneath the D string?

_________________
GUITAR: Fender USA JazzMaster.
BASS: Fender USA 58'AVRI
AMP: Fender USA SuperSonicTwin - Blonde.
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Open G String Feedback
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:42 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:33 am
Posts: 8461
Location: Mars, the angry red planet.
AaronK wrote:
What about rotating your pickups in their positions so that the highest pole lies beneath the D string?


The D and G polepieces are virtually identical in height.

_________________
You dig?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Open G String Feedback
Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 6:24 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:57 am
Posts: 13164
Location: Peckham: where the snow leopards roam
Hi Nik: putting aside the vexed question of the "vintage" stagger on single-coils (on which I know Martian has some views I sympathise with)... Your pickups look not wrong but perhaps a touch towards the high end of the range. Just as an experiment, howsabout lowering them by a careful two or three full turns of each height screw? You can see if that changes your issue any - if you don't like it then it's very easy to put things back how they were.

The conventional wisdom is that dropping your pickup height will reduce your output but slightly increase your sustain. The output you correct by simply turning your volume up proportionately: if you notice a little extra sustain then that may or may not seem like a good thing to you. The important bit is that this adjustment will reduce a touch the ratio difference the stagger makes to the output of each string, and lowering the output on that G pole might just help with this feedback problem.

If not, put it back the way it was and you've lost nothing.

Since you're sporting Abby wound pickups it might be kinda happy to find a way of making them work for you if possible, before resorting to swapping them out? Something to try, anyhow.

Cheers - C

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Open G String Feedback
Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 6:43 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14049
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
Nick feed back have nothing to do with pole piece eight. Feedback is sound turn in loop between a moving sensor , microphone or pickups ( with something loose inside) AND high volume amp AND to close to the amp.

Check your gear set up , amp , try another guitar . How are you close from the amp ? Volume ?

Sometimes whe need to "wax" pickups to remove feedback .

But forget poles pieces.

You are to be sure your guitar have a good set up . You say set up is good but are you sure ? Pickups height etc


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Open G String Feedback
Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 10:30 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:33 pm
Posts: 77
Thanks for the advice all. To be honest the LAST thing I want to do is swap the pickups out as they are fantastic.
Stratele52, I did suspect feedback was the wrong term, which is why I mentioned an open string harmonic or similar. I've checked every other part of my setup and no other guitars have the problem and it occurs on the CS Strat at any volume, any pickup, any settings. As far as the setup goes, I'm relying on the shop and they told me it didn't need much as it was great out of the box.
As you and Ceri (again I thank you my friend) say, I think I'll give lowering them a touch a try as I can certainly have plenty of output, so could stand to lose a touch. Added sustain would be a surprising bonus as it has an amazing amount already. I didn't think a Strat could have that much, so more would be incredible!

Looking at the second photo, it made me realise that maybe the saddle on the G is a touch low as well. I'm sure a mm or two more of spacing, whichever way, will solve the problem. Again, thanks for the advice. I'll let you know how I get on.

_________________
2012 Cherry Sunburst Custom Shop Deluxe Strat
2015 Black Eric Clapton Signature Strat
2015 Olympic Pearl US HSS Deluxe Strat
2013 Aged Cherry Sunburst Plus Top HSS Strat with FR


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Open G String Feedback
Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:00 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:57 am
Posts: 13164
Location: Peckham: where the snow leopards roam
Nik73 wrote:
...I did suspect feedback was the wrong term, which is why I mentioned an open string harmonic or similar...
Looking at the second photo, it made me realise that maybe the saddle on the G is a touch low as well.

Aha. Well now, if it's more of a sympathetic vibration we're talking about then while you're looking at the G saddle just check it's seated firmly on both its height screws. Sometimes one of them isn't quite decking out firmly, the saddle being held upright by the ones on either side. Then that loose screw can vibrate a bit on the trem plate and, voila, an annoying and hard to pinpoint resonance.

And another thing that sometimes happens is the pickguard vibrates against the body somewhere. Try striking a strong note on the G and then touching the pickguard in various spots (the top edge between screws sometimes seems to be the culprit) to see if you can feel anything with your fingertip, or if doing so suddenly stops the unwanted overtone. If so, there's a simple fix - but we'll come to that if we need to.

Just some more possibilities to think about.

Good luck - C

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Open G String Feedback
Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:04 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:33 pm
Posts: 77
I did actually try other areas to see if something was vibrating, but the only thing that stops it is muting/touching the string as it's singing it's little heart out! ;)
Don't know if that makes a difference.

_________________
2012 Cherry Sunburst Custom Shop Deluxe Strat
2015 Black Eric Clapton Signature Strat
2015 Olympic Pearl US HSS Deluxe Strat
2013 Aged Cherry Sunburst Plus Top HSS Strat with FR


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Open G String Feedback
Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:10 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:57 am
Posts: 13164
Location: Peckham: where the snow leopards roam
Then either the saddle or the nut slot are strong probabilities. Have a tinker with those saddle height screws and see what happens. You could also try lifting the string out of its nut slot and just giving the slot a gentle clean through with some dental floss. Might be a tiny burr that needs smoothing off.

BTW, apologies if I'm telling you stuff you know perfectly well - but it's bound to turn out to be some frustratingly silly little thing of this sort. This is just a joint head-scratching session.

Other Forum users are going to come up with lots more suggestions for where tiny vibrations can sneak in. It's a merry hunt! :D

Cheers - C

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Open G String Feedback
Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:55 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:33 pm
Posts: 77
Thanks for that Ceri and absolutely no apologies necessary! Before November last year I'd never had a guitar with saddles. Every guitar I owned had a tailpiece, ie Gibson or Epiphone so I'm very much learning as I go along.
Sadly I won't get chance to have a good fiddle until tomorrow, but I've got plenty to be going on with! :)

Thanks again.

_________________
2012 Cherry Sunburst Custom Shop Deluxe Strat
2015 Black Eric Clapton Signature Strat
2015 Olympic Pearl US HSS Deluxe Strat
2013 Aged Cherry Sunburst Plus Top HSS Strat with FR


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Open G String Feedback
Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:09 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14049
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
Nik73 wrote:
. As far as the setup goes, I'm relying on the shop and they told me it didn't need much as it was great out of the box.


In my opinion this is bulshit . Guitar often need a set up new from the box

I read to often guys bring their guitar to anybody in music store. I have few Stratocaster and Tele and I learn how to do tune-up by myself , I bought some luthier tools and have no problem on any guitar I can fix.

You try new strings I'm sure.

Go to see a skill luthier for a set up .


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Open G String Feedback
Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 9:50 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:33 pm
Posts: 77
Well everything with the nut and saddles seems fine. I did raise the saddle slightly on the G string, but no effect, even after raising it further. I also lowered each of the pickups by three full turns and sadly again, no effect. It didn't even reduce it slightly.

I made a short clip to show what I'm talking about as it's starting to drive me crazy. Apologies for the buzz and hum, but I was sat next to the amp at the time. Moving away has no effect on the sound.

http://soundcloud.com/nik73-2/g-string-sound

_________________
2012 Cherry Sunburst Custom Shop Deluxe Strat
2015 Black Eric Clapton Signature Strat
2015 Olympic Pearl US HSS Deluxe Strat
2013 Aged Cherry Sunburst Plus Top HSS Strat with FR


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Open G String Feedback
Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 10:08 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:33 pm
Posts: 77
I did a bit more digging and seem to have found what the problem is. Apparently it's a relative common problem. It's the part of the string between the nut and tuner that's the cause as it's the length (-->pitch) of a harmonic node on the G. Dampening the string after the nut stops it. I'm using a plectrum at the minute, but it seems a couple of extra winds when re-stringing is a better solution.
People have replaced nuts, pickups, etc before finding this out. Just glad to have figured it out!!

_________________
2012 Cherry Sunburst Custom Shop Deluxe Strat
2015 Black Eric Clapton Signature Strat
2015 Olympic Pearl US HSS Deluxe Strat
2013 Aged Cherry Sunburst Plus Top HSS Strat with FR


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Open G String Feedback
Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 10:58 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 2:49 am
Posts: 560
Location: Perth, Australia
Glad to hear the mystery is solved.

_________________
GUITAR: Fender USA JazzMaster.
BASS: Fender USA 58'AVRI
AMP: Fender USA SuperSonicTwin - Blonde.
Image


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: