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Post subject: 2012 American Vintage Series
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:21 am
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Interesting that Fender chose to install non-historically correct 5-way switches in their '56, '59, '65 vintage reissues. Does anyone know if they are using Oak Grigsby 5-ways or CRL's? (like they use in the custom shop)


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Post subject: Re: 2012 American Vintage Series
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:39 am
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Hello hp35, welcome to the Forum.

In the past Fender sold their American Vintage Strats with a five-way switch installed, because that's what the majority of players seem to want. However, they also supplied a three-way switch amongst the accessories, so's anyone who wanted to could have the instrument "authentic" if they prefered. I believe they still do that.

Maybe it should be the other way round - three-way installed and an optional five-way supplied? Who knows...

Far as the brand of the switch goes: I don't know and will be curious to find out.

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: 2012 American Vintage Series
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:15 am
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Ceri wrote:
Hello hp35, welcome to the Forum.

In the past Fender sold their American Vintage Strats with a five-way switch installed, because that's what the majority of players seem to want. However, they also supplied a three-way switch amongst the accessories, so's anyone who wanted to could have the instrument "authentic" if they prefered. I believe they still do that.

Maybe it should be the other way round - three-way installed and an optional five-way supplied? Who knows...

Far as the brand of the switch goes: I don't know and will be curious to find out.

Cheers - C



Ceri - it used to be the other way around. The old series of AV Strats had the 3-way installed at the factory and the 5-way was in the case. As someone who didn't start playing until after the 5-way became standard I had both the AV Strats I used to own changed over to the 5-way before I brought them home.

I think that since the majority of people do change them to the 5-ways Fender just decided to install the 5-way at the factory on the new series of AVs.

hp35 - sorry, I have no idea what switch Fender is using in these.


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Post subject: Re: 2012 American Vintage Series
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:31 am
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John C wrote:
Ceri - it used to be the other way around. The old series of AV Strats had the 3-way installed at the factory and the 5-way was in the case. As someone who didn't start playing until after the 5-way became standard I had both the AV Strats I used to own changed over to the 5-way before I brought them home.

Hi John. Ah-ha, that's good info, thanks. So, more authentic - but more complaints from buyers (and shops) that the first thing they had to do was get the soldering iron out.

Must admit, if my '57RI had come with a three-way installed the first thing I'd have done would be swap in a five-way too. Leo didn't like the in between sounds - but most of the rest of us do! :D

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: 2012 American Vintage Series
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:58 pm
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Ceri wrote:
Must admit, if my '57RI had come with a three-way installed the first thing I'd have done would be swap in a five-way too. Leo didn't like the in between sounds - but most of the rest of us do! :D

Cheers - C


Ha! I suspect it was more that Leo didn't want to order a second switch so he just stuck the 3-way from the Tele in the Strat - remember Leo was a cost accountant (per his college degree) as well as being an inventor. Of course musicians then stumbled upon the in-between sounds and the rest, as they say, is history. :lol:


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Post subject: Re: 2012 American Vintage Series
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:05 pm
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John C wrote:
Ceri wrote:
Hello hp35, welcome to the Forum.

In the past Fender sold their American Vintage Strats with a five-way switch installed, because that's what the majority of players seem to want. However, they also supplied a three-way switch amongst the accessories, so's anyone who wanted to could have the instrument "authentic" if they prefered. I believe they still do that.

Maybe it should be the other way round - three-way installed and an optional five-way supplied? Who knows...

Far as the brand of the switch goes: I don't know and will be curious to find out.

Cheers - C



Ceri - it used to be the other way around. The old series of AV Strats had the 3-way installed at the factory and the 5-way was in the case. As someone who didn't start playing until after the 5-way became standard I had both the AV Strats I used to own changed over to the 5-way before I brought them home.

I think that since the majority of people do change them to the 5-ways Fender just decided to install the 5-way at the factory on the new series of AVs.

hp35 - sorry, I have no idea what switch Fender is using in these.


+1

Just as with the butterscotch '52 Tele re-issue. From the factory, it was wired as per Leo's original design. However, parts were included to upgrade it to the "modern" configuration.

As for the AVS Strat switches, AFAIK Fender is currently using the Oak/Grigsby type.

HTH

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 2012 American Vintage Series
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:00 am
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John C wrote:
Ha! I suspect it was more that Leo didn't want to order a second switch so he just stuck the 3-way from the Tele in the Strat - remember Leo was a cost accountant (per his college degree) as well as being an inventor. Of course musicians then stumbled upon the in-between sounds and the rest, as they say, is history. :lol:

Getting a bit off-topic, but it's an interesting discussion so...

I absolutely stand to be corrected on this, but I believe I've read somewhere that people discovered the in-between sounds and to get them were doing that stuff with the matchstick in the switch. Which could get a bit tiresome, so naturally they wanted a five-way as an easier option - but Leo wouldn't go along with it. He felt the Strat was designed to give the sounds of each pickup on its own and that was that. To him the quacky in-between sounds were somehow wrong and they weren't going to put any five-way switch on the Strat while he had the say-so. (Rats: which book did I read all of that in? [Beats brain without success.])

The odd thing about that is that it wasn't till several more years after he'd sold the company that they finally introduced the five-way - mid-'70s, I think? So then it can't only have been down to Leo.

Also, did G&Ls and Musicmans (Er, Musicmen...? Musicpeople...?) have a five-way from the start? If so, I guess Leo wasn't so stubborn about it after all.

Sometimes it can be hard to separate internet myth from reality. :lol:

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: 2012 American Vintage Series
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:35 am
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Interesting and coincident with a discussion I was having with Xhefri Monday evening. I maintained that the 2 and the 4 positions with the 3-way switch were 'better' tone wise, that that obtained with the 5-way. [Of course, I'm thinking back more than 50 years to my '58 Strat. Yes...the discovery of that 'quack' DOES go back that far] I suggested to Xhefri that it might be attributable to the design of the switch itself and how signal was attenuated across the internal components of the circuit on the 3-way design. But of course, I'm 70 years old, retired, and did Oral Medicine for a living. The only 'circuitry' I dealt with was human. What the hell do I know??

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Post subject: Re: 2012 American Vintage Series
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:34 am
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Ceri wrote:
Also, did G&Ls and Musicmans (Er, Musicmen...? Musicpeople...?) have a five-way from the start? If so, I guess Leo wasn't so stubborn about it after all.

Sometimes it can be hard to separate internet myth from reality. :lol:

Cheers - C


Ceri - both of the Leo-era Music Mans only had 2 humbucker pickups. He used a 4-way lever switch on the Sting Ray guitar - and I have no idea what the 4 settings were on that. The second model, the Sabre, did use a 3-way blade switch.

G&L models with 3 pickups did come with the 5-way switch from the beginning.


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Post subject: Re: 2012 American Vintage Series
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:10 am
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John C wrote:
Ceri - both of the Leo-era Music Mans only had 2 humbucker pickups.

Ah, is that right? I admit I'm not too up on Music Man (even the correct spelling...) - but I'm not in the least surprised you are! 8)

Cheers man - C

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Post subject: Re: 2012 American Vintage Series
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:59 am
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I remember back in the late 60's and early 70s there was almost a mythical aspect about hitting those spots on the three way switch. It was like part of the magic of a Stratocaster. I was actually a little disappointed when they started using the 5-way. It took away a little secret that only those with the technique could accomplish.


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Post subject: Re: 2012 American Vintage Series
Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:35 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
Interesting and coincident with a discussion I was having with Xhefri Monday evening. I maintained that the 2 and the 4 positions with the 3-way switch were 'better' tone wise, that that obtained with the 5-way. [Of course, I'm thinking back more than 50 years to my '58 Strat. Yes...the discovery of that 'quack' DOES go back that far] I suggested to Xhefri that it might be attributable to the design of the switch itself and how signal was attenuated across the internal components of the circuit on the 3-way design. But of course, I'm 70 years old, retired, and did Oral Medicine for a living. The only 'circuitry' I dealt with was human. What the hell do I know??

I had that 3-way switch sounding better in positions 2 and 4 discussion with my favorite guitar tech last week when I was thinking about having him swap out the 3-way in my '65 for a 5-way. I had already done the 3-way for 5-way swap on a '56 Custom Shop NOS Strat and didn't notice any difference so I went ahead and had him make the change.

If there are tonal differences, my ears can't distinguish them and I'm enjoying the ease of switching to positions 2 and 4 on the fly.

Here's a quick pic of the underside of the '65's pickguard I took before the switch was changed.
Image000_1049 by John Bohn, on Flickr
Now that's what I call proper shielding.

John


Last edited by john.bohn on Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: 2012 American Vintage Series
Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:26 pm
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john.bohn wrote:
If there are tonal differences, my ears can't distinguish them and I'm enjoying the ease of switching to positions 2 and 4 on the fly.John

An original '58 Stratocaster was a totally different beast.

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