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Post subject: Re: 1997 Ultra Stratocaster - duel pickup sounds bad, help?
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:22 pm
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Taking what I learned on this site, and other sites, various schematics, pictures of the wires in my guitar, etc; I made a hand written electrical schematic.

Here is my first draft without any guarantee for accuracy or correctness.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/83731998@N07/8615696526/in/photostream

Looking at it now I also notice I can't really call it a proper schematic until I add what is inside the pickups... That's what I will do next.


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Post subject: Re: 1997 Ultra Stratocaster - duel pickup sounds bad, help?
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:50 pm
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I think the schematic is likely correct, but I won't know until I crack open my guitar and take a multimeter to it.

I highlighted all the conductors in use for all 11 modes for the ultra using my schematic. Send me a PM if you want me to email the highlighted schematics to you. For some reason the forum won't let me post a link to the file here.

I can see what Xhefri meant by the TBX is always in use on this guitar.

I have a much better understand of what is going on under the hood now.


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Post subject: Re: 1997 Ultra Stratocaster - duel pickup sounds bad, help?
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:53 am
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I found a place I could put the highlighted schematics that show which lines are active for each of the 11 modes for an ultra strat.

http://poppabot.com/stuff/Ultra_Strat_Schematic_(draft_2)_all_modes.pdf


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Post subject: Re: 1997 Ultra Stratocaster - duel pickup sounds bad, help?
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:54 am
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wow that is hard to read! :shock:

here is how the mini-switch is wired:

Image

Here is the Ultra wiring diagram. I wire them with a modification. The wire from the TBX (stock from Fender goes to the lower right lug on the 5-way Single waffer Super switch. These means the TBX is wired to all the pickups, all the time. I solder the TBX wire on the same lugs with the 3-way mini-swtich. This way the TBX works on only the bridge Dually and Middle pickup. Hope this help!

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Post subject: Re: 1997 Ultra Stratocaster - duel pickup sounds bad, help?
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:18 pm
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Confirmed dead read lace sensor, closest to bridge. After I removed the dead pickup the guitar worked in all other modes.

Now to find a replacement.


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Post subject: Re: 1997 Ultra Stratocaster - duel pickup sounds bad, help?
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:54 am
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FatBuck wrote:
Confirmed dead read lace sensor, closest to bridge. After I removed the dead pickup the guitar worked in all other modes.

Now to find a replacement.

Good and bad news all at one time. I thought that this was the problem. Good you found it Check eBay or email me. for a new pickup. Remember there are Fender Lace Sensors and Lace Sensors. it depends on if they are made to be marketed by Fender or directly by Lace. I have one but it is for a 1990 and is a different look and aged yellowish some.

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Last edited by Xhefri on Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: 1997 Ultra Stratocaster - duel pickup sounds bad, help?
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:20 pm
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I had an Ultra Strat. If you want to keep the guitar I would recommend installing different pick ups on that pick guard. You will get muc better sound. The red Lace Sensors pick ups have high output but they are very muddy sounding with poor definition on the low end and too much upper bass lower midrange and soft rolled off high end. I have owned all four types of Lace Sensors. The Gold mdoel was too thin. I like the Silver model. The Blue model was warm sounding. You should be able to find some Red Lace Sensors some where that work properly if you really want to. You could buy a new pick guard for the guitar too with whatever comfiguration you want.


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Post subject: Re: 1997 Ultra Stratocaster - duel pickup sounds bad, help?
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:27 pm
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If you got the guitar that way, one or both pickups might have broken wires inside if the guitar itself is wired properly inside and there are no shorted or broken wires. check the DC resistance of each pick up and do the screwdriver tapping each pick up test. Check on Fender Forum to see if there is someone that want to sell Red Lace Sensors. There are so many types of pick ups that I'm sure you would like better. You can have two noise cancelling single coil size pick ups wired in the dually bridge position and run them switchable in series or just one at a time.


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Post subject: Re: 1997 Ultra Stratocaster - duel pickup sounds bad, help?
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:29 pm
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Xhefri wrote:
New and bad news all at one time. I thought that this was the problem. Good you found it Check eBay or email me. for a new pickup. Remember there are Fender Lace Sensors and Lace Sensors. it depends on if they are made to be marketed by Fender or directly by Lace. I have one but it is for a 1990 and is a different look and aged yellowish some.


I was able to find a 'new' Fender Lace Sensor on EBay from Stratosphere. Thanks for the offer to your stash Xhefri.

Now that I know exactly what's under the hood I might try some of those other lace pups. Burgundy & Emerald are intriguing. Also those Alumitones look interesting, I could put those in a different guitar. I also want to try some of the DiMarzio pickups that look like the lace pups. Maybe some day.

I'll just be happy when my ultra strat is fixed.


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Post subject: Re: 1997 Ultra Stratocaster - duel pickup sounds bad, help?
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:35 pm
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When Fender Lace Sensors first came out they only had orange and white wires. If you installed them on some guitars they could be out of phase with other models and brands of pick ups but if you used the white for hot and orange for ground you would get hum from having your hand near the metal case of the pick up so you would have to reverse the hot and ground on the other pick up if it had a third chassis ground wire. It was much better when the third green chassis ground was put on the Lace Sensor.


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Post subject: Re: 1997 Ultra Stratocaster - duel pickup sounds bad, help?
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:44 pm
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Ronstratlover9 wrote:
When Fender Lace Sensors first came out they only had orange and white wires. If you installed them on some guitars they could be out of phase with other models and brands of pick ups but if you used the white for hot and orange for ground you would get hum from having your hand near the metal case of the pick up so you would have to reverse the hot and ground on the other pick up if it had a third chassis ground wire. It was much better when the third green chassis ground was put on the Lace Sensor.


That's interesting. I wonder why they didn't have the separate shield ground in the first place.

The only other problem I have is with the fretboard, and it's cosmetic. It looks like where the laquour finish that covers the wood near the ebony, the ebony isn't bonded to the laquour in a couple small spots. In one spot a tiny peice of laquour chipped off near the nut. I wonder if I can fix it.


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Post subject: Re: 1997 Ultra Stratocaster - duel pickup sounds bad, help?
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:12 am
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I know it is a lot to digest, but my website covers all the details about these pickups and the guitars in general: Image Also the only pickups that Lace made Reverse wound was the middle pickup on on the Gold sets, so it is not accurate to say that "they could be out of phase with other models and brands of pick ups but if you used the white for hot and orange for ground you would get hum from having your hand near the metal case of the pick up so you would have to reverse the hot ..." The extra green wire that was added in 1993 was just a ground wire to the chassis of the pick up, not to pickup's windings. Otherwise the morning and white wires are exactly the same throughout. You just want to remember that the orange wire is the hot lead of the pick up. If you simply replace this pick up with any type of red lace sensor from 1993 or newer you will have no problems.

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Post subject: Re: 1997 Ultra Stratocaster - duel pickup sounds bad, help?
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:33 am
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The Lace Sensors are by design a low to no noise pickup so there is no such thing as a reverse wound middle Gold Lace Sensor pick up for a set of three. There is no designation on Gold Lace Sensors as to neck, middle or bridge. A Gold Lace Sensor is a Gold Lace Sensor. You missed my point. Yes the orange is the hot on the pick up so you cannot reverse the white and the orange with other pick ups that are out of phase because of hum induction from hand proximity. When you buy A Gold Lace Sensor they are all the same.


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Post subject: Re: WRONG1997 Ultra Stratocaster - duel pickup sounds bad, h
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:48 am
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It is basic and not hard to digest at all. I know it is a lot to digest, but my website covers all the details about these pickups and the guitars in general: NOT TRUE : Also the only pickups that Lace made Reverse wound was the middle pickup on on the Gold sets NO ,no such thing on Gold Lace Sensors. { so it is not accurate to say that "they could be out of phase with other models and brands of pick ups } yes it is accurate because I have worked for a dealer and found the Lace Sensors were out of phase with other brands of pick ups since there is no standard as to which direction on a pick up is positive from one manufacturer to another and Dimarzio and Seymour Duncan will tell you that. that is why they put a separate chassis ground wire on their pick ups. I said in my post that if you used the white for hot and orange for ground you would get hum from having your hand near the metal case of the pick up so you would have to reverse the hot ...". Yes that is true and what I said. The extra green wire that was added in 1993 was just a ground wire to the chassis of the pick up, not to pickup's windings. Otherwise the morning and white wires are exactly the same throughout. You just want to remember that the orange wire is the hot lead of the pick up. this is talking about another post if the guy wanted to still use Red Lace Sensors if he liked the tone of them and wanted to keep the guitar original.
The Red Lace Sensors are dull soft and muddy so I say get rid of them. If you simply replace this pick up with any type of red lace sensor from 1993 or newer you will have no problems.


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Post subject: Re: 1997 Ultra Stratocaster - duel pickup sounds bad, help?
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:03 am
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Ronstratlover9 wrote:
The Lace Sensors are by design a low to no noise pickup so there is no such thing as a reverse wound middle Gold Lace Sensor pick up for a set of three. There is no designation on Gold Lace Sensors as to neck, middle or bridge. A Gold Lace Sensor is a Gold Lace Sensor. You missed my point. Yes the orange is the hot on the pick up so you cannot reverse the white and the orange with other pick ups that are out of phase because of hum induction from hand proximity. When you buy A Gold Lace Sensor they are all the same.

LOL, OK I am wrong. I just called and talked with Jared at Lace and he said they do not have a RW gold. I thought for sure when I was doing builds in the past I ran into an issue with this (I buy a lot of sets and then mix and match the pickups in builds). ummmm. Got me on this one but I gracefully eat humble pie! But I do know the orange is the "hot" lead on the pickup and the white is generally ground.

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