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Post subject: the unfixable guitar
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:41 pm
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Hey folks,
I have an american strat with an AMAZING tone , but theres just one problem.The intOnation will not stay in place! I know how to set intOnation and Ive done it more times then Id care to remember. The guitar has been to every shop in my city and a few others for repairs and it STILL with not set. It only stays on pitch for a few days then its right back to the drawing board. Its driveing me INSANE because I cant stand hearing the flat/sharp notes on the 12th fret. Ayway , I was just wondering if there is any guitar tech out there that has any ideas or tricks I could try to help fix my delema.
thanks


Last edited by banjo_style on Wed May 14, 2008 6:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:51 pm
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I'd say take it to a tech - but you've done that. Very strange... I want to know more.


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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:54 pm
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Is this guitar still under warranty? It sounds like there is a serious issue, or the techs you have been taking to don't know what they are doing.

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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:31 pm
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It looks like there is something that is loosening up over time. Those little screws you loosen on the saddles to adjust the intonation, maybe try using some Locktight there. How far does the intonation go out, that is, how far do you have to move the saddles to get it back in tune? Do you have a tremolo on this guitar? How many springs are behind it and what gage are your strings? You might need to add a spring to make your tremolo more stable.

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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:34 pm
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What in the world is INTINATION??????? You might know how to do it(so you say) but you sure can't spell it. Sorry to bust your chops!!!
Once the guitar is set up, the only real way that the intonation can change is with environmental changes. Unless by some act of God the tremelo springs are stretching out, or the bridge saddle adjuster screws are moving by themselves. Maybe the truss rod is not installed properly and will not keep the neck at the proper set. Once the strings are stretched(they are stretched,right?) all should stay relatively static unless the environment the guitar is in changes. Hot, cold, humid, dry can all change the wood, and therefore the set up. I have a '72 RI Stratocaster that I bought new in 1988, set it up, and have never had to mess with it since. Don't know what to tell you about htat one.


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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:46 pm
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I thought "that" was spelled t h a t...not h t a t... :lol:

Sorry...couldn't resist :D

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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:59 pm
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Warpfield wrote:
It looks like there is something that is loosening up over time. Those little screws you loosen on the saddles to adjust the intonation, maybe try using some Locktight there. How far does the intonation go out, that is, how far do you have to move the saddles to get it back in tune? Do you have a tremolo on this guitar? How many springs are behind it and what gage are your strings? You might need to add a spring to make your tremolo more stable.


Now this is good advise. I was also just reading some EMG info on how the cylindrical pole pieces in a standard strat pickup distort the natural motion of the string X 3 (for three pickups)! Bottom line... make sure the pickups are not too close to the strings.


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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 4:52 pm
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I ran into that problem with an ES-135. It needed a new bridge.

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Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 6:28 am
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Ceri wrote:
I'd say take it to a tech - but you've done that. Very strange... I want to know more.

hmmm yes, the guitar has a strange history-all in all its been a very problematic guitar-altho its got a crisp full stevie ray sound.Anywho, when I first bought the guitar it came stocked with a maple neck-the maple neck had a wicked jimi sound with a ton of sustain- but since then I've put a rosewood on.The maple neck had serious fret issues as well as the exact same intOnation problem. I also was hopeing I would have better luck adjusting it with the new neck but to no avail"I probably should have returned the dam thing after the first sign of issue, but I guess I was too stubborn " SO , it has a new neck which could definatly contribute to the issue. After reading some posts I think it might be the bridge-when I first got the thing I was a die hard stevie ray fan and decided to slap 13 s on it which was definatly not a good move"but they sounded amazing" so right now its got 3 springs on the bridge, its set up with 9s and its still doing the same thing. This guitar needs to be in the hand s of a professional"not me" , someone I can explain the history to and that will do what it takes to fix this issue-a complete overhaul. I just havent found that guy yet, if you know him tell him about me! lol
thanks


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Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 7:39 am
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Where do you live? This would be a help in referring you to someone.

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Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:40 am
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But listen, if a guitar keeps going out of tune it is because something is moving. This ain't a nuclear submarine: there's a limited number of options.

1. Hardware: a tuner or part of the bridge is loose or has a major bit of dirt in it that's shifting about. Check all screws, nuts and moving parts for stability. Clean everything. (Surely your techs did this.) If a two-point trem, are the knife-edges sharp, or worn and rounded? Very rarely, a problem with the trussrod - but you changed the neck, so it isn't that.

2. Assembly: something isn't attached like it should be. Check that the screws that attach the trem spring claw to the end of the cavity are firm and secure. Are the six screws or two posts that the trem moves against secure or wobbly? Are the screws that bolt the neck to the body nice and tight - but not over tightened so that they've sheared the wood inside? Is the nut sitting firm?

3. Neck pocket: with the screws out, does the neck still seat pretty firmly inside the neck pocket, or is there some play? (To me, the neck-to-body join is a high contender for the source of your problem.)

4. Finally, there is the very outside chance that there is something fundamentally wrong with the neck itself. I have a hazy memory of someone with a problem like yours finally getting the neck replaced (under warranty) because it turned out to be a bum piece of timber. Very unlikely, but it happens. ...But you said you'd changed the neck without success, so this surely ain't the answer.

All of this assumes your playing technique isn't causing problems, or that frequent changes of environment aren't to blame, as suggested in a previous post. Or that you don't just need a tougher set-up: five springs and heavier strings...

Look to your neck-body joint. I bet it's that.

Cheers - Ceri (guitar surgeon)


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Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:58 am
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Martian wrote:
Where do you live? This would be a help in referring you to someone.

Hey there
I live in Saint John Newbrunswick Canada


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Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 9:02 am
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Ceri wrote:
But listen, if a guitar keeps going out of tune it is because something is moving. This ain't a nuclear submarine: there's a limited number of options.

1. Hardware: a tuner or part of the bridge is loose or has a major bit of dirt in it that's shifting about. Check all screws, nuts and moving parts for stability. Clean everything. (Surely your techs did this.) If a two-point trem, are the knife-edges sharp, or worn and rounded? Very rarely, a problem with the trussrod - but you changed the neck, so it isn't that.

2. Assembly: something isn't attached like it should be. Check that the screws that attach the trem spring claw to the end of the cavity are firm and secure. Are the six screws or two posts that the trem moves against secure or wobbly? Are the screws that bolt the neck to the body nice and tight - but not over tightened so that they've sheared the wood inside? Is the nut sitting firm?

3. Neck pocket: with the screws out, does the neck still seat pretty firmly inside the neck pocket, or is there some play? (To me, the neck-to-body join is a high contender for the source of your problem.)

4. Finally, there is the very outside chance that there is something fundamentally wrong with the neck itself. I have a hazy memory of someone with a problem like yours finally getting the neck replaced (under warranty) because it turned out to be a bum piece of timber. Very unlikely, but it happens. ...But you said you'd changed the neck without success, so this surely ain't the answer.

All of this assumes your playing technique isn't causing problems, or that frequent changes of environment aren't to blame, as suggested in a previous post. Or that you don't just need a tougher set-up: five springs and heavier strings...

Look to your neck-body joint. I bet it's that.

Cheers - Ceri (guitar surgeon)


looks like I got some work to do!
thanks


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Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 9:19 am
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banjo_style wrote:
Martian wrote:
Where do you live? This would be a help in referring you to someone.

Hey there
I live in Saint John Newbrunswick Canada


Well, all you good people from Canada, help point a brother in the right direction!!

Of note too, I've noticed many a tech lays the guitar to be intonated flat out on a bench and proceed to intonate (in part) by barely putting exerting any pressure while fretting the guitar. To me, this is not reality, rather it is more 'clinical'. Additionally, when the guitar is picked up to be played, stuff will shift somewhat including of course, the tuning. Now, what I'm about to say is probably not "guitar scientific" but it has served me well for many years: Upon pre-stretching the new strings and making sure that the guitar is correctly set up in every other way, I hold the guitar in my normal playing position and then commence intonating it to my normal fingering pressure. Obviously, the guitar is now under it's usual playing circumstances which is what ultimately matters.

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Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:09 am
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Martian wrote:
banjo_style wrote:
Martian wrote:
Where do you live? This would be a help in referring you to someone.

Hey there
I live in Saint John Newbrunswick Canada


Well, all you good people from Canada, help point a brother in the right direction!!

Of note too, I've noticed many a tech lays the guitar to be intonated flat out on a bench and proceed to intonate (in part) by barely putting exerting any pressure while fretting the guitar. To me, this is not reality, rather it is more 'clinical'. Additionally, when the guitar is picked up to be played, stuff will shift somewhat including of course, the tuning. Now, what I'm about to say is probably not "guitar scientific" but it has served me well for many years: Upon pre-stretching the new strings and making sure that the guitar is correctly set up in every other way, I hold the guitar in my normal playing position and then commence intonating it to my normal fingering pressure. Obviously, the guitar is now under it's usual playing circumstances which is what ultimately matters.


Wow thats very interesting , I think ill try that, honestly I think i just need to reinforce the bridge.


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