It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:58 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
Post subject: Refreting - rosewood vs. maple
Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:17 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:09 am
Posts: 25
I would like to buy new American Deluxe Strat. A seller told me that today frets are wearing quickly (only about two years with usual playing). He also told me the frets can be much more easier to be changed on rosewood fretboard than on maple. And what's most important, it is much more visible on maple wood.

Is it true? I would like to buy "lifetime" guitar, so I'm asking... Thanks.


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Refreting - rosewood vs. maple
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:45 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:53 am
Posts: 4242
Refretting is a bit more complicated on maple because of the lacquer. A bit more expensive, too.

Changing frets every two years... Nope. Some maintenance (leveling & recrowning frets etc.) may be expected, depending on how and how much you play.
Refretting more visible on a maple neck... Nope, if you have a luthier who knows his/her job.

But to look at the big picture: IMHO there are no 'lifetime guitars' just as there are no 'lifetime cars'.


Last edited by jmattis on Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Refreting - rosewood vs. maple
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:54 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14050
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
smoke2 wrote:
I would like to buy new American Deluxe Strat. A seller told me that today frets are wearing quickly (only about two years with usual playing).
Is it true? I would like to buy "lifetime" guitar, so I'm asking... Thanks.


Wrong. I have many second hand guitars from '80 to 2000 , all frets are in good shape and original. Today frets are same material IMO


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Refreting - rosewood vs. maple
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:25 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:09 am
Posts: 25
Thanks, I was little afraid of maple, but now I know it's OK.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Refreting - rosewood vs. maple
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:27 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:27 pm
Posts: 3355
Location: Houston, Texas
Maple is harder to refret, but unless you're a crazy monster guitar player who spends 8 hours a day on your guitar you definitely will not have to get a refret every two years. A fret level, maybe. I play an average of 2-3 hours a day and before I had stainless steel frets I did have to get a fret level every couple of years. I like really tall frets, so there are a couple of guitars that I would like to refret after years of use. But even so the frets are still perfectly playable for people who like regular sized frets. Taller frets also mean that you can get more fret levels before you'd even need to think about a fret level.

I have seen someone wear down the frets almost to the fretboard of an American Deluxe Strat before. A friend of mine who plays like crazy took about seven or eight years to do that. She got it refretted with stainless steel frets. My guitar with stainless steel frets shows no wear at all after being played and gigged with for a year.

Back to your rosewood vs. maple issue, I'd say go with whichever one feels/looks better to you and let the luthier worry about the frets many years from now if and when you need to refret it. :)

_________________
Website: http://www.rebeccalaird.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rebeccalairdmusic
Twitter: https://twitter.com/beckslaird
Instagram: http://instagram.com/beckslaird


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Refreting - rosewood vs. maple
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:59 am
Offline
Roadie
Roadie
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:22 am
Posts: 231
smoke2 wrote:
A seller told me that....


Was the rosewood one more expensive than the maple boarded guitar you were looking at buying?

If yes = salepitch (a.k.a hot air).
If no = don't trust him (and/or his guitar tech) to do anything complicated for you!

_________________
Mater tua criceta fuit, et pater tuo redoluit bacarum sambucus


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Refreting - rosewood vs. maple
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:24 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 2:49 am
Posts: 560
Location: Perth, Australia
texasguitarslinger wrote:
........and before I had stainless steel frets I did have to get a fret level every couple of years. I like really tall frets, .......


Hi TexasGSL

What frets did you get? I like tall, thin stainless Frets and am considering getting Jescar medium/highest Stainless (Crown Height: .055" (1.40mm), Crown Width: .090" (2.29mm)) .

_________________
GUITAR: Fender USA JazzMaster.
BASS: Fender USA 58'AVRI
AMP: Fender USA SuperSonicTwin - Blonde.
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Refreting - rosewood vs. maple
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:42 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:27 pm
Posts: 3355
Location: Houston, Texas
AaronK wrote:
texasguitarslinger wrote:
........and before I had stainless steel frets I did have to get a fret level every couple of years. I like really tall frets, .......


Hi TexasGSL

What frets did you get? I like tall, thin stainless Frets and am considering getting Jescar medium/highest Stainless (Crown Height: .055" (1.40mm), Crown Width: .090" (2.29mm)) .


I think mine were the same as Dunlop 6105s, but the stainless steel version. They have very similar dimensions to the ones you just described. If you like tall, thin fret wire then that sounds just right. :)

_________________
Website: http://www.rebeccalaird.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rebeccalairdmusic
Twitter: https://twitter.com/beckslaird
Instagram: http://instagram.com/beckslaird


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Refreting - rosewood vs. maple
Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:20 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:15 pm
Posts: 603
Some maple boards have a heavy clear coat on them. That's probably what the person you were talking to was thinking of. A plain maple neck should be no different than a rosewood to refret. I have a Classic 50's that had a bone nut installed. You can see it took great care to cut the clear coat w/o cosmetic damage. A refret would require the board to be recoated I would think.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Refreting - rosewood vs. maple
Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:41 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:57 am
Posts: 13164
Location: Peckham: where the snow leopards roam
tvr1979 wrote:
A refret would require the board to be recoated I would think.

That's the long and short of it.

Both rosewood and maple can splinter and chip as you take the old frets out. Usually you can just glue those chips back in, but with maple you then have to sand the lacquer, respray and buff it. That's the potential extra bit of chargeable time the job may require.

By the way, there is a way to avoid many of these problems, after the first re-fret. Some people like to remove the barbs from the fret tangs (Stew-Mac sell their "fret barber" for the task) and then glue the frets in, instead of relying on the barbs to hold them in place. That means that next time you remove them they don't tend to damage the wood on their way out, and therefore you can re-fret the neck almost unlimited times.

Other people don't like the glue-in method and feel frets were meant to be hammered into place and that's that and all about it.

You pays your money you takes your choice.

Cheers - C

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Refreting - rosewood vs. maple
Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:26 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:27 pm
Posts: 3355
Location: Houston, Texas
Ceri wrote:
By the way, there is a way to avoid many of these problems, after the first re-fret. Some people like to remove the barbs from the fret tangs (Stew-Mac sell their "fret barber" for the task) and then glue the frets in, instead of relying on the barbs to hold them in place. That means that next time you remove them they don't tend to damage the wood on their way out, and therefore you can re-fret the neck almost unlimited times.

Other people don't like the glue-in method and feel frets were meant to be hammered into place and that's that and all about it.


How difficult is it to remove frets that have been glued in as opposed to frets that have been hammered in?

_________________
Website: http://www.rebeccalaird.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rebeccalairdmusic
Twitter: https://twitter.com/beckslaird
Instagram: http://instagram.com/beckslaird


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Refreting - rosewood vs. maple
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:24 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:53 am
Posts: 4242
texasguitarslinger wrote:
How difficult is it to remove frets that have been glued in as opposed to frets that have been hammered in?


Not a big difference - heating the fret wire before you take it off breaks the glue bond.
And, like Ceri said, splinters can occur in any type of fretboard, with hammered and glued frets - although IMHO the lacquer on maple helps to prevent splintering.
One thing to note: many refrets are done with barbs left in the tang and glue, so you have to pay double attention not to chip the wood.

Oh, Ceri, regarding those extra costs on maple: don't you sand a rosewood fretboard too, when you do a refret?
And thanks, Ceri - 'barbs' is a new guitarish word for me.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Refreting - rosewood vs. maple
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:19 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:50 pm
Posts: 469
Location: TURKEY
When I saw it being done on a maple fretboard, the luthier used a soldering iron which had a "U" shape cut into it's tip, so he didn't skid off , damaging the laquer
It worked very well and was surprisingly fast for a delicate job

_________________
Ted

"All right, guys, uh, listen. This is a blues riff in "B", watch me for the changes, and try and keep up, okay?"


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Refreting - rosewood vs. maple
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:36 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:47 am
Posts: 1256
smoke2 wrote:
I would like to buy new American Deluxe Strat. A seller told me that today frets are wearing quickly (only about two years with usual playing). He also told me the frets can be much more easier to be changed on rosewood fretboard than on maple. And what's most important, it is much more visible on maple wood.

Is it true? I would like to buy "lifetime" guitar, so I'm asking... Thanks.


No way this is true I've got some guitars that are 20+ years old, they have never been refetted nor do they need to be. I've got a 78 Yari that is just now in the shop for a re-crown on a few of the lower register frets -- do the math, it's 35 years old

unless I'm mistaking, nickel is still nickle, which is what most frets are made from. Really man, he's feeding you crap...

fret wear is an attribute of a few factors. your touch, how often you're playing, and your string gauge. Most common fret wear is at the first two/three frets as that's where many people spend most of their playing time. Especially on acoustics where open chords and capos are going to be hitting the frets a lot on those lower register

you will no doubt get fret wear with in the first year if you are playing a lot, but there's no way I can even get my head around the idea that you'll need a re-fret after 24 months.

regarding the fret work in general,, as already has been said, a good luthier does it right, you won't see any traces the work was done, a hack, is a hack.. don't use the hacks.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Refreting - rosewood vs. maple
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:42 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:57 am
Posts: 13164
Location: Peckham: where the snow leopards roam
texasguitarslinger wrote:
How difficult is it to remove frets that have been glued in as opposed to frets that have been hammered in?

Hi TGS: once there's no barbs on the tang then so long as the tang and slot fit each other nicely then, like the others are saying, just heating the fret to melt the glue join should allow it to pull out reasonably easily. A firm pull, but not a struggle. It's still not an infallible system, but at any rate you're not tearing the wood with those barbs as they come out.

If you're interested, I seem to recall Dan has more to say about the pros and cons of the glue-in method in Fretting: Step-by-Step - but I don't have my copy to hand right this minute.


jmattis wrote:
Oh, Ceri, regarding those extra costs on maple: don't you sand a rosewood fretboard too, when you do a refret?
And thanks, Ceri - 'barbs' is a new guitarish word for me.

Hi mattis: if rosewood is chipped after fret removal and needs repairing then of course it needs sanding after. And if the player has worn divots into the 'board then he probably wants those sanded out while the frets are off too. But neither of those are automatic, we'd take it on a case by case basis, I think?

On the other hand, if maple gets chipped there's no alternative but to sand the lacquer mostly or completely off and respray. So it just has the potential to be a bigger job. Not always, of course, but on balance.

I've a feeling some techs automatically quote a higher price for refretting a maple 'board, and that can't be right. It should depend on how much work it turns out to be in each case. But that in turn depends on the player being prepared to pay on a variable scale, and not everyone's happy with that: some people insist on a fixed quote before they start, and in that case I guess the tech has to cover the possibility it'll be a tough one.

(Dislcaimer: I should make it clear, I don't do this for a living. I only do this stuff on my own and friends' instruments. After many years I've a fair amount of experience, but it's not daily work for me. Don't want to pretend to be something I'm not.)

Cheers - C

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: tominkansas and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: